Bosch or Lucas starter motor?

[Nicola&Tony]

3 years after fitting a Bosch starter (to our 1.9 petrol DG) I'm having to replace it. On Monday I'll have a choice of buying a Bosch or Lucas starter from local branch of Euro Car Parts. Just wondering which one to go for? Had hoped that the previous Bosch one would last longer than 3 years I think the Lucas one is cheaper but I don't know what they're like for quality.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

Tony

[kevtherev]

All products feature the high-quality and superb finish of an ISO 9001.2000 certified production.

All starters and alternators are remanufactured using modern methods and equipment. All parts are cleaned, examined and tested. Parts that fail these tests are automatically replaced. Prior to sale all units go through a comprehensive electrical and mechanical test.

The check includes leakage testing of all units with gas and oil. After that, finishing by running a total function test, checking the unit step by step.

Any branded product will have advantages.
If the new one only lasted three years I would want to know what went wrong with it, and more importantly why.

[Nicola&Tony]

Thanks Kev, do you think I should take the failed starter back to gsf and ask them to get it tested?

I decided to get the new part from Euro because they've recently opened a branch which is a lot closer to us than gsf is, but there's a surcharge on it (as there is with gsf).

Tony

[kevtherev]

have you not got a local repairer?

[Ralf85]

I am not surprised by the limited life of your starter motor. Bosch electrical parts used to be built in Germany and had a brilliant reputation. I was told by a VW camper specialist garage that they are often now made outside of Germany and the reliability and longevity has declined. As a consequence that garage tries to repair/restore parts wherever possible as the original parts are more robust. Good luck with your purchase.

Patrick

[Nicola&Tony]

Cheers fellas. I decided against getting it repaired in case another bit of it died in a few months time. If I ever get the time I'd like to buy a used spare and learn how to repair starter motors myself, probably not until my retirement though! An idea for a techy weekend perhaps?

Tony

[Plasticman]

well id be well unhappy if a genuine item like this failed in such short time, I would take it to an auto elec w'shop to get it checked, windings etc and see what the fault is, then proceed to get redress as you see fit.
what can you do to repair, well you can change the starter solenoids, brush gear is a bit more involved as are bearings , the braids fail etc,
nice to have a spare though as you say.
mm

[Ian Hulley]

Bosch electrical parts used to be built in Germany and had a brilliant reputation. I was told by a VW camper specialist garage that they are often now made outside of Germany and the reliability and longevity has declined.

I was told they shipped the dirty work East to the Czech Republic where labour's cheaper.

[Oldiebut goodie]

ON-VEHICLE TESTING
STARTER DOES NOT CRANK ENGINE
1) Ensure battery is fully charged. Make sure electrical and
ground connections are clean and tight. With ignition switch in START
position, measure voltage at spade terminal of starter solenoid.
Reading should be at least 8 volts (9.5 volts on Fox). If so, check
engine for mechanical problems. If voltage is not as specified, go to
next step.
2) Measure voltage at ignition switch. If reading is at least
8 volts (9.5 volts on Fox), check wiring between ignition switch and
starter solenoid. If voltage is not as specified, replace ignition
switch.
3) Measure voltage at field (starter) terminal of starter
solenoid. If reading is 8 volts or more, repair or replace starter. If
reading is less than 8 volts, replace starter solenoid.
NOTE: On vehicles with automatic transmission, also check
park/neutral switch.
STARTER CRANKS TOO SLOWLY
Ensure engine crankcase is filled with recommended viscosity
oil. Check charging system to ensure battery is fully charged. Make
sure electrical and ground connections are clean and tight. If starter
still turns slowly, repair or replace starter.
VOLTAGE DROP TEST
Starter Main Terminal
Connect a voltmeter between starter main terminal and starter
body. Disconnect ignition coil positive terminal and operate starter.
Voltage reading should not be more than 1.0 volt less than battery
voltage. If a larger voltage drop is indicated, circuit between
battery and starter terminal may be defective.
Main Starter Case
Connect a voltmeter between positive battery terminal and
starter motor "M" terminal. With ignition off, operate starter for 2-3
seconds. Battery voltage should be present, then drop to less than one
volt. If voltage is greater than specification, high resistance may be
present in circuit. Go to ACROSS SOLENOID SWITCH test.
Across Solenoid Switch
Connect a voltmeter between 2 starter solenoid terminal stud
connections. With ignition disconnected, operate starter for 2-3
seconds and note meter reading. Initially, battery voltage should be
present, then voltage should drop to less than .5 volts. If voltage is
not as specified, check for damaged switch or loose or dirty
connections. If high resistance is present, terminal may be loose or
corroded.
Ground Return Line
Connect a voltmeter between battery ground terminal and
starter main housing. With ignition off, operate starter for 2-3
seconds. If ground is okay, voltage reading should be less than .5
volt. If reading is .6 volt or more, high resistance is present in
ground return side of circuit.
BENCH TESTING
STARTER SOLENOID
1) Remove bridge strap connecting solenoid to motor. Check
windings by connecting a 12-volt battery operated test light between
solenoid main terminal STA and solenoid body. If light illuminates,
both windings are satisfactory.
2) Ensure that contacts open and close satisfactorily by
connecting 12-volt battery and a high wattage test light between main
solenoid terminals. Test light should not illuminate.
3) Close switch by energizing solenoid windings. Solenoid
should be heard to operate and closing of solenoid contacts will be
indicated by test light illuminating to full brilliance. On opening
switch, test light should go out.
STARTER LOAD (LOCK) TEST
With starter on test bench, lock starter drive pinion.
Voltmeter should read 4.5 volts and ammeter should read 700-800 amps.
STARTER NO-LOAD TEST
With starter on test bench, operate starter and check
ammeter, voltage, and RPM. Readings should be within specification.
See STARTER NO-LOAD TEST SPECIFICATIONS table.
STARTER NO-LOAD TEST SPECIFICATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Volts Amps RPM
11.5 ......................... 65-95 ........................ 6500

Armature
Runout ............................... .002" (.05mm)
End Play ............................. .002" (.05mm)
Cold Cranking
Test Voltage .................................... 12
Minimum Voltage .................................. 9
Amps ............................................ 90
Minimum RPM ................................... 1500
Solenoid Hold-In
Winding Voltage .................... 4 Volts (Min.)
Solenoid Pull-In
Winding Voltage ................................. 7
Commutator Runout ..................... .0004" (.01mm)
Cranking Voltage ........................ 9 Volts Min.
Starter Current Draw ................... 170 Amps Max.

[Nicola&Tony]

Crikey, loads of info there, thanks very much

Tony