lost 1st & 2nd gear - past topic faded- have same problem

[markdspark]

In Feb 2011 a thread of posts started by 'CovKid' dealt with a gear selection problem. This was no 1st and 2nd but reverse, 3rd and 4th OK. The thread however ended after a dozen posts but there was no solutuion posted.Work was continuing and there was a contined link to another area but this is not available.

Can anyone remember the solution as I have exactly the same problem. I was 5 miles from home traveling back from Glastonbury when suddenly no 1st or second. No crunching or noises just neutral. I can start from first principles using hints from other posts that did not work in the 'CovKid' case.

Any experience would be helpful befoe I start crawling underneath tweaking things best left alone.

1982 Van 1983 water cooled engine. 4 gear manual

[Aidan]

the van in the original post is due here shortly to have a look see what the f is the problem now as selection still poor, but I have one of Silverbullet's front selector fork repair kits ready as I'm expecting it to be that, combined with allignment.
1st and 2nd on a 4 speed are selected by a relay lever in the gearbox which reverses the direction of travel of the selector, ie first you push forward but the synchro goes backward (yes I know the selector rod goes backward when the stick goes forward but the selector shaft in the box moves the opposite way normally hence the relay lever)
I've already replaced the relay lever in the box on this one so hopefully it's not that, but in your case you need to check so under van, remove the rear onion and unjoin the cup and ball. Then push the ball half way in and backwards, that should be 1st, now drop the clutch and start the van and then slowly release the clutch, if it's in gear then it's an allignment problem, if it's not then it's the relay lever has broken

[ermie571]

Aidan,

that is great info - just one bit confuses me....what direction is "backwards" - towards the front of the bus or towards the back of the bus?

And if I was doing this on a five speed...where is first now? And once you have first...do you repeat the pattern at the gear stick to get the other gears at the box, taking into account the position of first?

ta

Em
xx

[Aidan]

ok update on Nigels bus, worn front linkage nylon guide needs replacement, repair kit supplied ; and play at the UJ in the middle, the pin has worn the hole in the rear shaft and is slopping about so even though the gearstick is moving enough not all that movement is being translated to the gearbox end; much faffing about and it's driveable with care, 1st and 2nd easier at expense of difficult reverse. Will need rear linkage replacing too - I've sourced one for next week and will probably replace the pin and the UJ as well then it should all be right.

Remember folks the steering wheel is where your hands should be except at the point of changing gear, don't drive with your hand on the gearstick (in any vehicle) as even the slightest pressure or movement can cause wear in parts that want to be in their natural resting place, eventually that wear can cause selection issues

Em backwards is back of bus, so on a four speed you push stick forward for 1st, linkage goes backwards, ie the cup and ball go backwards, this makes the selector shaft in the box rotate forwards, ie clockwise when looking at the ball, but 1st gear is at the back of the box closest to the output flanges so the relay lever is required to reverse direction that the selector fork moves to engage 1st gear.

on a five speed 1st is hung out the front of the box, 2nd is where first is in a 4 speed, 3rd is where second is etc...reverse is in the same place

thus 2nd is strongest gear in 5 speed box so if you need to bump start a five speed always use 2nd, in a 4 speed always use 1st, and in both try to avoid bumping in reverse, in a syncro 1st is strongest and never bump in R or G as the reduction gearset multiplies the torque 3 fold and can easily punch the reverse idler shaft out of the bottom of the box causing much damage and expense.

setting up linkage by easy method, default position in 4 speed is 3rd/4th plane, on a five speed 2nd/3rd plane
ie just against the spring in the gearbox, but complicated by the spring thing in the bottom of the five speed stick, I'll be using a syncro gearstick and linkage (same as 4 speed) when I fit a 5 speed in the pickup as it's easy enough to go under the gate to get 1st same a we do to get G, simpler linkage less wearing parts, and easier to obtain if required

[markdspark]

I removed the Shift Linkage Housing and can now find what Ithink is 1st & 2nd. The only obvious signs of wear are the pair of plastic shift guides.
My Haynes manual only shows a 5 speed assembly which has two shift guides but in a different arrangement. I will now try to get some new ones to fit at the weekend. If required I will then start looking at the UJ.

Thanks for the help so far.

[Plasticman]

well written Aiden, its one of those things that are relativly easy to set up and adjust but a b***er to try and write how to
.top work
mike

[markdspark]

These nylon shift guides appear to be a hard to get items. Kampers do not show them as available. One link said VW may have other links say the part is obsolete. Second hand is pointless. There is a posted picture of rebuild using a Tufnol sleeve.

Does anyone have a guaranteed source before I start manufacture.

[Aidan]

They will be available from Brickwerks very very soon if not already - I asked Silverbullet - Ian Holman to come up with a repair kit because the only other solution is to replace the shaft with a new one as bushes are moulded on (£90 a shaft), so we did some R and D, mostly Ian and field testing and lo and behold a kit is born, one for four speeds one for five speeds, and Brickwerks will be the UK and European distributor and Ian is negotiating a deal with an American distributor too

there are several posts on the forum about the kits if you use search

Brickwerks for quality parts and remanufactured essentials and oem stuff, JK for plastic Chinese camping tat

[markdspark]

Tried the new plastic guides from Brickwerks but still no joy. Worth a try - well made bits.
I put the whole van off the ground; disconnected the gear stick and con only find 3rd, 4th & reverse. The places where 1st & second should be just give me a neutral with no drive.

Any ideas? Am I now in to gearbox removal. My Haynes manual only covers engine removal - Do they both have to be removed?

[Aidan]

if you can select 1st and 2nd on a 4 speed box without the gears engaging then the relay lever has broken it's axle, if you remove the reverse switch housing (3 bolts 1mm heads M7) and observe the axle of the relay lever in the bottom hole when you select either of these gears the axle isn't moving rotationally but may move in and out in the hole - may pull out with a magnet

be aware there's a big spring and metal top hat under the reverse switch housing ready to go sproing when you undo the three bolts

[markdspark]

If I understand correctly, if the pin comes out totally then the relay lever has broken it's axle. As I have been unable to get a gearbox drawing I am not sure how this part works {web seaches unsuccessful}.

Please could you advise the best way forward?
Firstly can i remove the gearbox without the engine in my drive with the the van on ramps?
Is the box repairable or is a replacement job? The 1982 van is a keeper, with with a very good body, 67,000 miles on the engine gearbox. I need another 15,000 out of the gearbox before I do a combi replacement.

If the box is repairable is it a task best only undertaken by someone who has done it before with specialised tools? I have totally rebuilt many motorcycles so am not a novice. However without drawings I do not want to extract a piece and have a mass of springs all over the garage.

Thanks for the help so far. Mark

[Aidan]

if the pin ? do you mean the steel part in the lower hole ? that's the axle for the relay lever, yes if that comes out of the box it's foobarred it was riveted at the other end
yes you can remove box on ramps on the drive without removing the engine
relay lever is fitted to the box first so last out I'm afraid it's a full strip down job, can be done, you need the Bentley manual the full procedure is in there

[silverbullet]

Since I got a mention I'll relate a similar tale...
The Microbru has developed a hot-selection fault with 1st and reverse in the 5-speed, discovered recently after a few days down the New Forest. Near inpossible to get reverse sometimes and it can go in with a jolt and a bang
It's fine when cold (aren't they all?) but reverse is rather rattly/razzy and first seems to have a cyclic whirr at low speed. All the problems start after a decent run and you pull into a carpark with it all nicely warmed up.
All the linkage has recently been renewed including a fresh 5-speed lever assembly apart from the selector wedges (it still had the original 4-speed one) and the centre sliding bearing which is hidden over the middle of the long SA fuel tank. Getting to the u/j and middle clamp was bad enough...it was all fitted up, adjusted and nicely lubed, worked fine for a few miles testing but that wasn't when hot.
It feels like fighting a worn synchromesh with a knackered clutch release, except that it's got a fresh slave and it's all bled out properly.
I fear a fractured synchro hub and another rebuild...?
This one was rebuilt for the previous owner by persons unknown maybe 4 years ago; they couldn't exchange it as it's an SA one with 108mm CV flanges so it got parts from a donor transmission, so I was told.

Buggerbuggerbugger just my luck