Mig Welder, & Related Essencial tools for Bodywork Questions

[Mickyfin]

Having experience in the car restoration business back when I lived in the UK, I am capable of most things on a vehicle, from engine, and gearbox removal and fitting, to completely stripping, and rebuilding a vehicle. The only experience I lack, is welding, as I used to have a good friend who did all my welding requirements back in the day.

Now I reside in Finland, and have nobody to weld for me, in fact, I'm very much isolated here, living in the middle of nowhere, but have many resources bodywork wise nearby, panel suppliers etc.

I thought it high time I learnt to weld for myself seeing as I am in the market for a T3/T25, and after reading many of the superb, well documented build thread here, I'm inspired to do this work myself.

I have done some searching around relating to welding, as I wish to start learning to weld in preparation for my first T3/T25 when the right one comes up for sale, but have a few questions to put to those of you who have the experience of welding.

I would appreciate answers to the following questions please if you don't mind .

What are the essencial tools needed to carry out body repairs on a T3/T25

My understanding a Mig welder is better that an Arc welder for bodywork due to the Arc causing many problems with thin body metal?

Angle Grinder I'm sure I will need, but its the cutting disks, and their grades Im unsure about so any pointers here would be appreciated.

I read a lot about people using a wire wheel to get rusted areas down to good metal, but what is this exactly? Is it a simple wire disk you attach to a drill for example, and if so, which grade/type of wire wheel are recommended?

Metal cutters for cutting fresh pieces of metal from fabricators, this is something which I know is certainly needed.

Clamps. I see in many of the build threads, there are many variants of body clamps used to assist the lining up of panels for welding, are these simply called body clamps?

Back to the Angle Grinder, and cutting out old rusty metal, is there an add-on, or other tool which you welders use to get to those hard to get at places where the angle grinders disk is too big to get to? If so, which is this that you use?

When tacking panels in place onto your T3/T25, what is the recommended procedure? Every 2 inches around the circumference of the panel? Then once done, do you use the MIG Welder to continue to fill in the remaining voids?

When all the voids are welded? do you simply use the angle grinder to smooth off the welding so its flush ready for skim filler, or filler primer/rust protection/primer?

Obviously I will need a welding mask to protect my eyes, and of course would need gloves. Any recommendations on either/both of these would be great.

Filler, which type of filler is best? I have very little experience in filler, and only had some experience with P38? It was a kind of fibreglass type mix, with hardener, but not seen this in any of the build threads, so any input here would be appreciated.

Sanding paper, which course is best for sanding down hardened filler? The Yellow, harsh type? Any pointers to the required sanding papers, and related blocks/shaped tools needed here relating to sanding would be very much appreciated.

Masking tape I'm aware of.

I have quite a collection of mechanical tools as you can imagine coming from a car restoration background, but I did part with quite a lot due to travelling from UK to Finland. The only tools I really lack are those related to welding, and bodywork, hence my post/thread here today.

I would really appreciate you taking the time, and sharing your experience with me relating to the above questions as I wish to get myself prepared as much as possible for when I do find the right T3/T25. I have plenty of room for working on the van, so this is not a problem, as we have a summer house with external electric, and whatnot. The only thing I don't have is a compressor for air tools, but thats something I need to look into.

Thanks for taking the time to read through my thread, and as said, I would appreciate anyone sharing their personal experiences with me relating to carrying out bodywork on a T3/T25.

Many thanks!

Micky

[boatbuilder]

A small 115mm angle grinder is the most used tool I think. You can get thin 1mm or 1.2mm cutting blades which are pretty much essential.
Then you would need some 115mm thick grinding disks to grind down welds. Then some 40 or 60 grit flap discs to do the final smoothing.

A wire wheel is usually fitted to the same angle grinder, you can get a few versions of wire wheel, I prefer using a grit blaster myself as it does a more thorough job and is safer...the wire wheels can catch on your clothes very easily if you're not careful.

I use aviation snips for cutting out small patches, but use the grinder with thin blade to cut out bigger ones.
A couple of pairs of vicegrips are handy for clamping. Also some vice-grip type body clamps, you can get a set of three on ebay for a tenner.
I tried using intergrips (special body clamps for butt welding) but found them too much hassle. You can align a lot of stuff by just pushing in the right place or using small magnets.

For tacking stuff in place, I found two-inch sections far too long if you want to avoid warpage. More like half and inch for me, cooling the weld as fast as you can with compressed air.
Its worth getting an auto=darkening welding helmet, can't imagine working without one. Also, you need decent bright light for welding.
I don't use welding gloves, I find them too cumbersome, I just put up with the sparks and occasional tiny burn!
Filler...well, a lot of people like the new metal-based fillers.

[Hacksawbob]

wire wheel attaches to your grinder. might be an idea to have 2 grinders so you areb't chopping and changing the attachments back and forth
http://www.spiralbrushes.com/twisted-knot-wire.html

[Mickyfin]

Excellent, thanks guys, thats certainly added a few things to my shopping list. Thank you very much, really appreciated.!

[New Kentish Campers]

Having experience in the car restoration business back when I lived in the UK, I am capable of most things on a vehicle, from engine, and gearbox removal and fitting, to completely stripping, and rebuilding a vehicle. The only experience I lack, is welding, as I used to have a good friend who did all my welding requirements back in the day.

Now I reside in Finland, and have nobody to weld for me, in fact, I'm very much isolated here, living in the middle of nowhere, but have many resources bodywork wise nearby, panel suppliers etc.

I thought it high time I learnt to weld for myself seeing as I am in the market for a T3/T25, and after reading many of the superb, well documented build thread here, I'm inspired to do this work myself.

I have done some searching around relating to welding, as I wish to start learning to weld in preparation for my first T3/T25 when the right one comes up for sale, but have a few questions to put to those of you who have the experience of welding.

I would appreciate answers to the following questions please if you don't mind .

What are the essencial tools needed to carry out body repairs on a T3/T25

My understanding a Mig welder is better that an Arc welder for bodywork due to the Arc causing many problems with thin body metal?

Yes, try to buy the best you can afford. Cheap mig welders are built to price, i.e poor quality transformers, wire-feed motors, poor torches. They will overheath, splutter, and get hot, in that order. Ideally, get one thats around 160/180amp, with a Eurotourch and always use Argon shield gas [You can use a lower amperage but but these will struggle on thicker metal inthat you will have to use the high voltage settings on thicker metal and the transformer will tend to overheat and shut the welder down until its cool again, and so it will go on

Angle Grinder I'm sure I will need, but its the cutting disks, and their grades Im unsure about so any pointers here would be appreciated.

A small 4 or 4.5 " one will do the job, and you can use, depending on your pocket, either rubber backing pads that will take P24/36/60 grit disks. If you can, use 3m products as they last much longer. Or however, I've found those flap wheels that incorporate a solid grinding disk underneth to be very good and I only used 2 on my entire job. And, 3m Roloc disks are also excellent, particularly for confined spaces

I read a lot about people using a wire wheel to get rusted areas down to good metal, but what is this exactly? Is it a simple wire disk you attach to a drill for example, and if so, which grade/type of wire wheel are recommended?

Metal cutters for cutting fresh pieces of metal from fabricators, this is something which I know is certainly needed.

The thin cutting discs are good, though I found an air-saw more effective and very fast.

Clamps. I see in many of the build threads, there are many variants of body clamps used to assist the lining up of panels for welding, are these simply called body clamps?

'Mole grips are good, better still, Snap-on Vise-grips are excellent, but are expensive. Get some C Clamps too, the longer the better. Self-tappers are a good way of pulling panels togther too, and you simply weld the holes up afterward. I dont recommend cheap clamps as you will find they will spring off as they get hot, or just cant take a hard grip setting.

Back to the Angle Grinder, and cutting out old rusty metal, is there an add-on, or other tool which you welders use to get to those hard to get at places where the angle grinders disk is too big to get to? If so, which is this that you use?

3m roloc discs are very good

When tacking panels in place onto your T3/T25, what is the recommended procedure? Every 2 inches around the circumference of the panel? Then once done, do you use the MIG Welder to continue to fill in the remaining voids?

My preferred method is to put tacks that can be removed without doing any damage to any panels and, dont put a tack in a confined area as it will be hard to remove. I like to plug weld panels that formally had a spot weld. I use a 1/4" drill, going through the new panel and almost through the old one underneath at about 1.5" intervals, or better still, replicate the original factory weld spacing if applicable. Providing both mating surfaces are nice and tight, you can then weld the hole to leave a nice little pool on top of the hole that can be carefully ground off . If you can master it, the ground and sanded surface will be completely flush with no need to fill anything.Best to do some practice first though, playing around with wire feed speed, voltages, application, etc. If you want to do a long seam weld, you can use the spot weld method and then fill in the gaps, but stagger the joints to avoid warping the panel

When all the voids are welded? do you simply use the angle grinder to smooth off the welding so its flush ready for skim filler, or filler primer/rust protection/primer? As above, avoid grinding into the new panel too much as you are removing your nice new metal!

Obviously I will need a welding mask to protect my eyes, and of course would need gloves. Any recommendations on either/both of these would be great. Get an auto-darkening one, and buy some welders gloves. These are designed to protect you from UV light damage and burns, and will be thin enough to give enough feel to the mig welder's trigger.

Filler, which type of filler is best? I have very little experience in filler, and only had some experience with P38? It was a kind of fibreglass type mix, with hardener, but not seen this in any of the build threads, so any input here would be appreciated. I've been using a very good, lightweight filler, in large cans, from Ebay,costing about 15 quid, delivered

Sanding paper, which course is best for sanding down hardened filler? The Yellow, harsh type? Any pointers to the required sanding papers, and related blocks/shaped tools needed here relating to sanding would be very much appreciated.Try to avoid very coarse papers as the scratch marks that will remain will then need to be sanded out. If you can master putting filler on nice and smooth, then its much less work to sand down. I used 60 and 80 grit paper, and 120 grit for a final finish. Try to sand, for a flat finish, at an angle of about 45 degrees, and always with a decent rubber block. If you relying on using just your hands, it wont sand flat. Use a Use a larger block for bigger areas. Again, cheap abrasives area false economy, use 3m if possible [I dont have shares in them, by the way ]

Masking tape I'm aware of.

I have quite a collection of mechanical tools as you can imagine coming from a car restoration background, but I did part with quite a lot due to travelling from UK to Finland. The only tools I really lack are those related to welding, and bodywork, hence my post/thread here today.

I would really appreciate you taking the time, and sharing your experience with me relating to the above questions as I wish to get myself prepared as much as possible for when I do find the right T3/T25. I have plenty of room for working on the van, so this is not a problem, as we have a summer house with external electric, and whatnot. The only thing I don't have is a compressor for air tools, but thats something I need to look into.
The bigger the better, i.e HP and tank size. You could use an electric DA sander for your paint preparation, though these are more expensive than air powered ones. That said, air tools are safer and more reliable.

Thanks for taking the time to read through my thread, and as said, I would appreciate anyone sharing their personal experiences with me relating to carrying out bodywork on a T3/T25.

Many thanks!

Micky

[Mickyfin]

Many many thanks for your time answering my questions, its priceless help, thanks ever so much!

[New Kentish Campers]

One thing I forgot to add was that - assuming you will be repainting the van too - preparation is everything. New paint is not forgiving and will simply show up everything underneath, be it a scratch mark, sanding mark, a pin hole in a filled area, etc.

Best advice is that you sand paint off where you are going to use filler a couple of inches away from the damage into a good area. That then avoids you putting filler over paint. You can never hope to get a decent job where you cant easily see the repair if you do repairs that way.

Secondly, use progressively finer grades of paper; those as mentioned for filler repairs, then 120 grit and upward. Generally, I like to use P180 discs on a DA sander [dual action, meaning a random orbit rotation so will give a swirl-free finish, and, if you use an air one, you can often fix the counter weight on its shaft so that the orbit is fixed, so if then used with p60/80/100 discs for grinding, gives a great finish] and then onto p240 before applying a primer filler undercoat. Then I like to use p400/600 [wet or dry, either is ok, I like wet on any filled areas so the water gives a good reflection in the light to show up any ripples] for solid colour paints,and a red scotchbrite pad for the areas where a disc cant be used. Before you do any sanding, make sure you throughly degrease the panels otherwise once sanded, the heat that can be generated can make the grease go into the sanded areas and sometimes can contaminate you nice new paint

lastly, once everythings painted, you can de-nib the surface of runs & dirt using p1200/1500 grit before some Farecla G3 on a mop to cut and polish. Or, you could used even finer grits on a DA and then use G3, its up to you.

If you are going down the basecoat and clear route, use finer grades all the way as basecoat is not at all forgiving to bad preparation

[boatdog]

just can i add boatbuilder be careful i know you dont wear gloves because hey are a bit clumsy and you put up with the sparks but be aware the arc light off any welder be it MIG (MAG) MMA (Arc) TIG etc causes skin cancer so even if you dontget burned today it may come back to haunt you later this goes for anypart of the body.
30 years as a structual welder has taught me this incase your wondering

[Mickyfin]

Thanks again guys, I love this place, so very helpful and friendly. I will certainly make sure I am prepared for when I find the right T3. The recent Syncro I found was a little too soon financially for me, need to keep saving to ensure I have enough funds for van, collection, and work/servicing.

[tabbytiger23]

im commenting as there is such usefull information i want it kept in my post's to refer to later.

Brilliant post!

And very helpfull

[Mickyfin]

Would you guys say this is a good enough Mig Welder?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mig-welder-/1 ... 1e662dfe63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have noticed there are a lot of cheaper alternatives, but as said, they are cheap, and crap with only 90 amps. I have been searching around for a 160-180 amp, and the one linked above seems ok?

[New Kentish Campers]

Personally, I'd give that a miss. The advert states that its gasless and those type of machines dont, in my opinion, give good welds.

I mentioned 160/80 amp welders because although they are hefty enough to weld much thicker steel that that which is on your van, the transformers wont need to be stressed as much as that of a lower amperage one would, i.e you would be using say No3 -from 8 - on the voltage setting on a bigger machine whereas you'd be more using 5 or 6 from 8 on the smaller one.

That all said and done, you would still be able to weld ok with a smaller machine, but its all about preference.

Take a look on Screwfix's website as they were recently clearing out some 165 amp machines at around 250 quid, if memory serves. The machines also took gas as well.

[Mickyfin]

Thanks for the heads up! I will check that site out! Many thanks

[boatbuilder]

Yes you really need a gas mig welder.

[Mickyfin]

Shocking! A garage, not a main dealer I may add just quoted me €2300 to weld my new rear wheel arch, and lower back panel

Whats a fair price to weld these panels on please?

I'm now looking at hiring a welder and getting my father-in-law to do it for me. He has a welder, but its far too powerful for the arch repair. He was a welder by trade, so looking to hire a lower powered welder for him to do the work for me.