Orig + cable run location on '85 Westy Leisure Battery?

[Speedy-]

Hi All,

It looks like this subject has been done to death but I'm having problems with the originally installed split charge wiring on my '85 (B Reg) LHD Westfalia Joker.

I wanted to try and identify the issue in the original loom before I hook up a brand new one and I’ve searched google, Club 80-90, Brickyard, TheSamba etc. to death.


What I've found from testing is that ALL wires down there are dead, engine running or not

From what I've identified so far:

Brown Ground - This is obvious as it goes to the floor pan
Red/Yellow - This runs to the LG20 charger under the rear seat (which I've removed to also replace)
Thin White Wire - This appears to be the trigger for the relay so I'm guessing this should come from the Battery Indicator light on the dash somewhere, the light works but this wire is always dead, no 12v. Is this fused anywhere?
Thick Red wire that has an inline fuse spuring from it ?

This is where things get hazzy.. as I loose the wires behind the bodywork of the camper....

The alternator seems to have two thick red/white wires coming out of it that disappear under the camper somewhere and as of yet haven't found where they go, possibly into the small fuse box on the back left of the engine bay to the fusebox for the fan relay from what I can see?)

Am I missing a 12v distribution block here?

What I'm trying to find is where does the LB take its 12v charge feed from physically?

1) The starter battery across the van (so under the passenger on mine as it's LHD)
2) From one of the relay's on the fridge? (or does the Fridge take it from the split charge relay)
3) From a wire somewhere running straight to the alternator?

To me there must be a loose wire/connector/blown fuse somewhere, but as of yet I'm not finding the link

Fuse under the drivers seat by the split charge relay is fine too, but both sides of the wire are dead anyway.

I also noticed there is a small black junction (about 1” by 1.5”? with a thumb screw cover) box mounted to the floor of the camper that is wired straight to 12v on the LB, the other end pops out of the side of the seat box seems to go under the floor and pops out in the compartment where the main battery is, but is currently not connected. I’m wondering if this junction box is original do you think that was meant to go to the starter battery to take the 12v feed for the Leisure battery and then run through the split charge relay and this is my missing link?

There is also a red/black wire going into the split charge relay.. I’m now wondering if that actually runs to the LG20’s other wire and is meant to back feed from the black junction box in the Leisure battery compartment across to the main battery. I’ll check those tonight with my continuity tester.

Any help on how these were originally setup would be good for someone else who has an 85/86 Joker.

Thanks guys.

[Speedy-]

Ok, just been outside and the Red/Black wire definitely goes to the LG20 charger under the seat as well as the Red/Yellow. So I'm thinking if they both pop up under the drivers seat (LHD) the 12v feed for the Leisure battery doesn't come in with that loom?

I'm still unable to trace where that white wire goes to (what I think is the signal wire), would it go to the dask or to the back of the camper for its signal?

Here is a pic of what I've got (please ignore the two thin wires in the bottom of the picture going to the negative and positibe main terminals they are for an aftermarket fog light someone has fitted, I will remove these when I get a min.

[Hacksawbob]

I take it you have seen this?
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~johngau ... nglish.pdf

original relay under the drivers seat is often knacked as its marginal to handle the amps over the years. best to check its working OK . you should feel it click when you start the van

[Speedy-]

Hi,

Relay works ok if I put 12v to where the white thin wire is connected, but no charging occurs as all wires are dead with engine running or off unfortunately

Testing the continuity of the relay that is also switching fine when power is applied to it, it's just not getting any juice to put anywhere

Thank you for the link, I did have a look through the diagrams but I couldn't work out where to physically trace the wires/connections to from the diagrams I looked at. I'll might try and print one out on A3 paper and give it another go but I keep finding bits that aren't referenced on the tables

It's a shame there's no-one local with a Westfalia of the same era I could take a look at, I've got a local high top and a normal T25 bus near me but no Westys.

[Hacksawbob]

where are you? if you fill in your profile with your location it would help. I think from memory the main feed to the relay goes back to the rear battery by exiting under the battery box and running in side the main back to front VW loom it runs inside a plastic sheth with all the other front to back wiring and re surfaces in the engine bay. I could be wrong but I have a distant memory of this! there should be a chunkyish wire going to your + battery in the rear. It may have had a fuse added at some point near the rear battery? I cant remember the colour but red is going to be a likely candidate! if I get a chance I'll take a look.

[Speedy-]

Location filled in South East London/ Kent region.

It sounds like your pick-up may be different as my starter battery is under the passenger (right) seat and has the really thick starter cable running from it.

At the moment I can't find anywhere the red/white cables from the alternator turn into a solid red coloured cable up the front of the camper. I'm going to jack her up tonight and have a crawl around under there.

I just saw a chap on here from londoncampers has a couple of similar era Jokers he hires out, I might drop him a line and see if he would mind me popping over to take a look.

[Hacksawbob]

Ok so you have a petrol, Diesel starter Bat is in the back. But logic would dictate that they follow the same starter Battery-relay-leisure battery layout with trigger coming from alternator on its way to the dash. although Westy electrics dont seem to follow logic!

[BALDY3260]

have a read of this http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/batte ... 61627.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; helped me no end, i had to run a new trigger wire from alternator to split charge relay in the end, oh and replace both batteries as they were fubar, all ok now baldy

btw mines an 89 diesel so starter battery in engine bay, but should give some pointers oh and my westy charger has been removed

[Speedy-]

Thanks for that, had quick look through and things are starting to get a little clearer, although I think the colour coding might be different from mine slightly.

So from what I'm working out.

- Brown in my pic is of course ground as we can see it goes to the chassis
- Red/Yellow we know goes to the LG20 charger under the seat and is there to charge the Leisure battery
- Red/White is there to charge the starter battery (as that also goes to the other connetor on the LG20 charger under the seat)
- White is my trigger that is dead so I need to run a new one of these, but at least I now know that should piggyback off of a fridge relay so I'll check back there.
- Red is the feed to the fridge, Leisure unit, water pump etc. and is 'Y' connected there on the same spade as it takes power from the battery for the pump etc. when off and the fridge of course can't use it while the engine isn't running as that has an isolator relay on top of it.

So I have 2 problems here:

1) I'm missing a starter battery/alternator + feed from the mix here.
2) My trigger wire (white) that goes to the blue alternator wire is dead

As far as I can work out from all the reading, the thick black wire that feeds from the Leisure battery clamp to the black box in the top right of the pic was meant to drive the night heater as under that cap is a place for a couple of those ceramic fuses (now broken tabs in there so not usable) so that box is pretty much empty at the moment. I bet that red wire coming out of there is meant to go to the night heater to run that (the Ebesrspacher thingy) which mine now runs from the main starter battery. The Red wire you see coming out of the little black box just runs under the mat and goes over to the starter battery box then is not connected, no idea what that was there for.

I wonder where my + feed from battery to the LB has gone then, it must be a pretty thick wire to have gone missing under there

That red wire on the far right couldn't have been connected to the starter battery itself as that would bpass the split charge completely and the thick black wire going to the positive clamp on the Leisure battery looks pretty factory so I don't think that has been 'added'

I'll take another dig around there tonight and see what I can find, I'm determined to work out what someone has done here before I start running new wires everywhere.

Thanks for your help so far guys.

[Hacksawbob]

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~johngau ... nglish.pdf

on the diagram the black box houses the fuses E1 and E2 They are for the the heater and the fridge, usually this is mounted to the A pillar?

- Red/Yellow we know goes to the LG20 charger under the seat and is there to charge the Leisure battery

yes corect this is track 9 along the bottom rt/ge us the code for red/yellow!

- Red/White is there to charge the starter battery (as that also goes to the other connetor on the LG20 charger under the seat)

On the wiring diagram the charger to starting battery is marked R/SW which is red/black Rot/Schwartz, now whether that is a typo and should be R/WS rot/weiss? anyway according to the diagram it comes from the charger goes to the relay under the seat and on to the starting battery 2 pin 87's on the relay. So they are permanently connected to each other and are not affected by the state of the relay.

- White is my trigger that is dead so I need to run a new one of these, but at least I now know that should piggyback off of a fridge relay so I'll check back there.

Again if the wiring diagram is to be believed the wire to the fridge is marked blue and goes to pin 85 on the under seat relay, and then on to the alternator so the fridge is 'piggy backed' off the seat relay not the other way around

- Red is the feed to the fridge, Leisure unit, water pump etc. and is 'Y' connected there on the same spade as it takes power from the battery for the pump etc. when off and the fridge of course can't use it while the engine isn't running as that has an isolator relay on top of it.

yes it should be connected to the battery from what I can see.

If I get a chance I'll take some pictures of mine, but with out removing the battery there is not a lot to see, and that means removing the seat, and that means removing the steering wheel!

I have never really understood the trigger mechanism TBH but I tried to put a voltage sensing relay in the circuit once in order to get rid of the under seat relay (it just had the positives from both batteries and an earth.) however as I had lost the trigger circuit the van would not start anymore, so there was more to that trigger circuit than just alternator charge light it seemed to have an effect on ignition, although this may be different for diesels /petrols!

[Speedy-]

Hi, thank you for the helpful feedback here.

I will check these bits out as soon as I get a moment. Has been a mad rush to sort out new calipers, MOT and a few other bits before taking the camper away this Friday for the weekend so haven't had much chance to look at the split charge.

Also found where my oil leak is coming from (innder ends of the infamous Push Rod tubes) which also led me to find a leak on the right water jacket/head gasket while it was on the ramp

I will report back when I get some more wire tracing (hopefully before we pull the engine to do the seals) fingers crossed the head studs don't snap too.. From what I read, lots of heat from a blow torch (plumbers style) then I'll get a friend at a garage to use the air gun so hopefully the impact motion undoes them before they break