Newbie and purchase questions?

[CharlesTeton]

Hi Everyone,

I just found the club8090 forum, which is great because I want to buy a T25/T3 and there is no better research than from their owners.

About me: I'm a filmmaker and photographer. I've had very original ex-army vehicles, including Bedford RL trucks and very original 109 Land Rover ambulance which I used as camouflage for carrying film gear around Liverpool and Manchester for three years. Never broken into but they tried to trash bullet proof windows out side the Irish Centre, it was ten years ago, and was a great help filming on Formby Beach with 17 people on board. Ended up loosing her another time on Formby Beach when I went over a part of the beach which had a sewage outlet near by, the ambulance sank in a foot of sludge and only stalled when the water came above the gear box casing. I watched with the police as she became submersed. They then told me I had to recover it the next day as a Russian tall ship was coming in and they did not want it floating about and sinking the ship! One of the RL Trucks I bought, broke down a mile down the road after picking it up and the previous owner took it back immediately, those were the days. For the last 8 years I've had used 4x4 Suzuki's, which have never given me any mechanical problems but I've always hankered after a camper and settled after getting a VW. Last two years I've been in the divorce courts fighting over my daughter, whom I now look after all pretty much all during the term week and half of the half terms and holidays.


A few purchase questions, if you don't mind?

1) I'm looking for a low owner, low milage, very clean, original rust free T25 four birth poptop camper, most probably Westfalia, or a funky Reimo/Holdsworth Conversion. I should think everyone is looking for the same... I've done some research around the web and this forum. I'm also keeping an eye on ebay, with both private sellers and dealers. Over 100 T25 auctions or buy-it-now, as of this minute. For the reasonable looking T25's most don't seem to be meeting their reserves, usually getting to between 4K to 6K for a good example. Dealers seem to be asking 10K for a pretty minty looking examples but don't seem many of these selling. There is one for 17K, which looks great but way over my budget! My budget for a very minty and little and well cared for used example would be 10K or less. If its from a dealer I would be looking for 6 months mechanical warranty. I/m looking to use the T25 as my main vehicle for 30 minute school runs, weekend park runs, half term Isle of Wight from London runs and during the end of term holidays, anywhere from Cornwall to Scotland and France, where my sister has a place.

Is this budget realistic? Or over/under budget?

2) I've read that the air cooled versions are underpowered? Are the 1.6 diesel and turbo diesel version under power too? Should I ideally be looking for a 2 plus litre version?

3) Not the best question to ask in this T25 forum but I've been noticing one or two reasonable milage Westfalia or Holdsworth T4 are about 10K, they don't have the class or the T25's but are they very reliable for the price?

I realize that I'm still talking of upkeep on any T25 I buy, limited by where I live as it would have to be done on the street, as I've had ex-army low milage reserve vehicles, which usually need all the rubber seals replaced when you start using them day in and day out.

Please feel free to put your comments in as I'm a newbie to the T25 and need guidance from you 'old timers" before I get a turkey...

Many many thanks.

[..lee..]

Welcome on board. £10k should buy you a really nice 2wd Westy or similar. Carthago's are nice too. Consensus seems to be 2.1 petrol best to drive but thirsty. Gassing it is an option but you may loose storage space. 16td (jx) best economy / power option plus converting to Tdi easier. With your love of 4wd. Check out the syncro options. Our budding film maker jed has loads of videos on. Campervanculture web site.


http://campervanculture.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Lee.

[CharlesTeton]

Thanks Lee, Any idea of the MPG on the diesels? Yes, I've looked at the syncro options and they look very cool... Saw one in Germany that looked little used, possible gearbox problems look very expensive to repair and the MPG is probably like my 109, 12-15 MPG...

[malmoy]

Recently my 1.6td did a measured 28mpg cruising at about 60 mainly on motorways. I filled the tank to the brim then refilled it, converted litres to gallons etc. So it does about 400 miles per tank with some to fuel to spare. So I would estimate real world mixed use with a light foot about 24mpg. No doubt other peoples experience will be different.

Regards purchasing I think you have had few replies because everyone has their own, different, opinions. My purchase choice was to find a van that had no electrical or mechanical modifications that I could not see or understand. I was trying to ensure no hidden surprises. And, also as I don't like body work, it had to be solid. The great thing about these vans is they are very simple, and your previous experience will allow you to work on them with confidence.

Mal.

[CharlesTeton]

Thanks Mal... Nice 1.6TD Westfalia Atlantic you have. I've been thinking of going down the same route. How do you rate the 1.6L engine? What is your cruising speed? Any problems on the hills? I know what you mean about the no mods. Thanks for you help.

[kevtherev]

I read the first line and stopped reading the rest.. "probably a westy" did that so sorry if I have not understood this right.
By wanting a westy and calling a Holdsworth "funky" you have blanked out any input from owners of English conversions Autosleeper, Holdsworth, Devon and so on... but that's your choice, and maybe suits your personality... functional and uniform

On common ground is the engine choice.
I would say that an LPG 2.1 injected flat four is sex in metal right there.
That flat four sound is unique and a very VW, I guess the petrol head in me loves it...but it's..
Boringly economical at the financial equivalent of around 40 mpg. on motorway cruises, with a dual fuel range of over 500 miles without filling up.

At the crux of it all is the body and chassis, you should expect NO RUST AT ALL for that sort of wonga.

I should think everyone is looking for the same...

Oh no we're not

Kev

[malmoy]

The 1.6td engine is fine; it's just that the automotive world has moved on. 65bhp and 2,500kg are never going to cut it compared to, say, my 1.9td Passat with 130bhp and 1,000 kg less weight. The van will cruise at 70 but the fuel consumption and noise start to get to high (compared to a modern car). 60-65 mph seems to suit me and the van. Long French hills look a challenge but we all got there and back so you just have to adjust your expectations. There is always a solution, but £45,000 for a 180bhp DSG T5.5, is out of my pocket!
Mal

[CharlesTeton]

Thanks kevtherev for your post. What sort of cost does it take to LPG? 40 MPG is fantastic...

"calling a Holdsworth "funky" you have blanked out any input from owners of English conversions Autosleeper, Holdsworth, Devon and so on..."

The use of the work 'funky' is not meant to be detrimental or dismissive of the English conversions. Six months ago I had to completely furnish a flat for my daughter and I and it now filled with lots of great solid teak English furniture and lots of G-plan and lovely gold Dralon three piece suite, funky ship cocktail bar, 60-70 berry laminated bedroom suits. etc. all off eBay at crazy prices, less than ikea, but all build like tanks. So I love funky...

What I have found and please tell me if I'm wrong, is that Holdsworth tended to go in for extended tops rather than pop tops? Judging from the few I've seen on eBay or in the magazines. I'm quite leaning towards a pop top over a large extended top, there also seems to me more Westfalia around... I seen some real funky ones on a German website... Anyway just researching and window shopping while I wait for the money to free up from testate in a month or two. My mum, God bless her...

Thanks Mal, Good to know, that serves me right for reading the 'essential buyer's guide to VW bus's'... What's your take on the automatic gearbox? Had a auto for the last 7 years in London and loved it but I can gear shift...

'There is always a solution, but £45,000 for a 180bhp DSG T5.5, is out of my pocket!' - Mine too and they loose so much money the minute you buy it, never had a new vehicle in my life.

[California Dreamin]

Carry out a Wiki search, there are literally dozens of posts on diesel versa's petrol and fuel consumption comparisons.
The 28mpg 400 mile on a tank full doesn't seem to add up to me...my 2.1 averages around 25mpg on a run and I never dare take it much past 260miles before filling so unless the Diesels have a much bigger fuel tank which I know they haven't.....
I tend to record every fill whilst travelling abroad then work everything out after returning home and before anyone says 'what a saddo' it only takes 10 seconds in a day......
From what I've read on here the 1.6TD under similar driving returns low 30's and doesn't give the same driving experience....However, a 1.6TD is slightly more desireable from a selling point of view.
I just love the drive from my 2.1 and sure if I had space for a large LPG tank I would be tempted to gas but for now the compromise on space is too much.

Martin

[malmoy]

Martin, you may be right. I know I can do 200 miles to the half way mark on the guage. I know I did 28mpg, toping the tank and toping the tank, dividing fuel refilled and miles travelled. I know I've done 350 miles and got near to the red (depends if going up or down hill!). What I don't know is how close to the red and how much further I could have gone. Mal

[California Dreamin]

Malmoy...the way you worked it out sounds accurate it was just the 400 mile thing that had me wishing lol.....and it was nice to see you posting an honest 28mpg for the 1.6TD although I'm sure it's capable of more it just goes to show there isn't as much of a difference as some would have us believe.
Martin

[CharlesTeton]

Wow, LPG'ing is quite reasonable and cost affective... Where do they usually put the tank in a T3?

[whitevan woman]

Hi,
I notice your location is SW London, so bear in mind the LEZ problem if you do travel into the city and want a diesel
Tanks can be fitted in a variety of places, spare wheel carrier at the front, under the seat, toroidal in back, or along the side. it's down to personal choice and space really.

[CharlesTeton]

Thanks whitevan woman, jeepers does this really effect a camper van if it has a V5 classing it as a camper van? Great to know and take into the mix...

[New Kentish Campers]

Much of this is subjective.. Pop top v Hi top? The former is practical in that you have better stability against cross winds on motorways and it will go under most car park barriers; the High top gives a lot more fixed area so your telly, for instance, can be permamently fixed. Diesel v petrol: Diesel is more economical, but wont exactly set the world alight for performance, unless you have a bigger engine conversion of course. Petrol is good, but dont look for economy, the low 20's will be as good as it gets. But, you can convert the petrol to also run on gas [Gasure, in the discounts section of the site will give you details] but you will need to be doing a fair bit of mileage to recover the cost, but there again, your residual value should be better.

But,these things do tend to rust and I reckon you will be very fortunate indeed to find an original, unmolested van that doesn't have the all too typical seam rust somewhere or the other.

But even if the they are slow, expensive to fuel, etc, they will bring a smile to your face everytime you drive it