Diesel Gearbox Protection

[syncropaddy]

Neither of you are engineers are you?

Education is brilliant ..... Before I went to skool I didnt know what and engineer was ... now I are one

[HarryMann]

Being an engineer dosent mean squat.

Unless you're tasked with designing a new engine....

er?

[syncropaddy]

Being an engineer dosent mean squat.
Russel

Why?

[jebiga41]

What is your gearbox oil temperature? How much hotter will it get with the bash plates on? Is my oil getting any hotter with my setup than say, a standard set up crossing the Great Sandy Desert in Australia in an Australian spec vehicle, where the temperature is regularly in the 40's C ( which according to the Australian spec Caravelle handbook I have, uses the same oil as you and I ). In fact is my oil getting any hotter than yours? How hot does the oil need to get to before it physically and chemically breaks down enough to 'Cook' the gearbox? I would suggest that you dont have a shred of evidence to prove your point and do we need to remind each other who is the engineer here.

As it turns out I am a qualified Transport Engineer amongst other things quoting literature stolen from someone elses van does not prove your point Andrew

Just as a matter of interest, I am using Castrol Syntrans 75W85 which is API GL3 GL4. It is quite happy to work away at temperatures ranging from -26C to 100C as that is the design spec. Now you are all gonna love this bit ..... THE DESIGN LIFE OF THIS PRODUCT IS 400,000 Kms!!! This is the oil as specified by Castrol for VW Syncro.

How do you know it is within its operating temperature, is staying below 100C? Especially as your van is not stock !!! i.e having its gearbox and diff half wrappd in foam and covered by Ally plate!
you might want to consider this point of view Andrew

OEM's recommend an optimum operating viscosity for their equipment in order to perform and
operate within the original design parameters. Maintaining an operating temperature that
achieves the OEM recommended viscosity becomes in many cases the responsibility of the end
user. The temperature of a gearbox in operation will increase until the heat balance of the
internally generated heat plus the external imposed heat reaches equilibrium with the dissipated
heat. If this heat cannot be dissipated by radiation through the gearbox housing surfaces and
through convection to the surrounding air, surrounding structures and components, then an
alternate cooling system (heat dissipation) should be considered

http://www.predictusa.com/pdf-files/new-article12.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You also seem to be missing the point of this discussion yet again we are talking about YOUR gearbox and diff which YOU claim to be working perfectly and have so far not produced any specific evidence to back up your claims pay attention 007!.

The other syncro, mine, is fine thank you. No gravel or stones catching as there is plenty of foam rubber between the shield and the transmission. There is plenty of airflow around the box and front diff. The shields do not hinder this at all. No overheating and plenty of protection ..... ideal

Being an engineer dosent mean squat.
Russel

yeah they are a dumb bunch thats why I became a clown!!!!

[toomanytoys]

Looks like I should get my thermal maping head on and record some data...

[silverbullet]

Get to it Si.
We need impirical data (lots of it) and some rigorous analysis applied to draw some meaningful conclusions, not a load of "my mate said" and "it's always been ok as far as I know" which doesn't help anyone now these vehicles are being modified and used well outside of their original design parameters (ooh get me, giving an unqualified opinion. whoops!)
Re: Engineers, it does rather depend on the level of experience in the relevant field of expertise. No use getting a fresh graduate on the case unless you need the number-crunching done, they always seem to be Cadbury teapots...
P.S. Merely being a Fitter does not make you an Engineer

[syncropaddy]

..... quoting literature stolen from someone elses van ...

I feel it must be clarified here that I did not steal literature from someone else's van. The literature mentioned was removed from MY Australian spec Kombi.

What quoting this literature does prove is that the oil spec in Hot climate countries is the same as here. This gives us a head start as regards operating temperatures.

How do you know it is within its operating temperature, is staying below 100C? Especially as your van is not stock !!! i.e having its gearbox and diff half wrappd in foam and covered by Ally plate!
you might want to consider this point of view Andrew

I asked you similar questions but you didn't answer any of them. I'll answer yours when you answer mine. For the record my front diff and gearbox are not "half wrapped in foam and covered by Ally plate!" There is light foam between the shields and diff/gearbox to prevent stones etc from lodging there and it works. The shields have 30mm holes drilled in them to allow water and slop drain away. Now the questions that you failed to answer/avoid in the post you are quoting from are as follows...

What is your gearbox oil temperature?
How much hotter will it get with the bash plates on?
Is my oil getting any hotter with my setup than say, a standard set up crossing the Great Sandy Desert in Australia in an Australian spec vehicle?
In fact is my oil getting any hotter than yours?
How hot does the oil need to get to before it physically and chemically breaks down enough to 'Cook' the gearbox?

OEM's recommend an optimum operating viscosity for their equipment in order to perform and
operate within the original design parameters. Maintaining an operating temperature that
achieves the OEM recommended viscosity becomes in many cases the responsibility of the end
user. The temperature of a gearbox in operation will increase until the heat balance of the
internally generated heat plus the external imposed heat reaches equilibrium with the dissipated
heat. If this heat cannot be dissipated by radiation through the gearbox housing surfaces and
through convection to the surrounding air, surrounding structures and components, then an
alternate cooling system (heat dissipation) should be considered

Why are you trawling the internet to find a related statement that to me, is common sense?

You also seem to be missing the point of this discussion yet again we are talking about YOUR gearbox and diff which YOU claim to be working perfectly and have so far not produced any specific evidence to back up your claims pay attention 007!.

The heat thing was mentioned by PC52 ..... I just carried it on. Its not my gearbox he was talking about but gearboxes in general .... now Paul, you pay attention and answer the questions.

The other syncro, mine, is fine thank you. No gravel or stones catching as there is plenty of foam rubber between the shield and the transmission. There is plenty of airflow around the box and front diff. The shields do not hinder this at all. No overheating and plenty of protection ..... ideal

Prove that statement wrong Paul, after you have answered the questions you are avoiding

[jebiga41]

You might say removed others would say stolen

The heat thing was mentioned by PC52 ..... I just carried it on

By coming out with statements without a shred of evidence to prove your point as I pointed out two days ago!Yet you have the audacity to say that other people are talking B****x. Also when asked to justify your claims you reply with a number of questions for me including questions about the temperature of your gearbox oil
So lets try this again Andrew in response to the following statements

The other syncro, mine, is fine thank you. No gravel or stones catching as there is plenty of foam rubber between the shield and the transmission. There is plenty of airflow around the box and front diff. The shields do not hinder this at all. No overheating and plenty of protection ..... ideal

Mine works with no cooling issues, no stones caught up in it, NO PROBLEMS at all ...

I asked you

as you have no record of gearbox temperatures either before or after fitting protection plates and foam which as we all know VW did not fit as standard, and you have not dropped your oil, how could you Andrew safely say that there is no effect on the temperature of your boxes or you are not slowly cooking them to death ??

As you have been avoiding this one simple question for two days I think it is safe to assume that you cannot answer it and you are actually talking B****x Andrew who knows maybe thats a first for you

Looks like I should get my thermal maping head on and record some data...

Oh please do so we can avoid the mine works fine and NO PROBLEMS statements

[jed the spread]

[syncropaddy]

But back to the oil if for instance the gearbox and diff were overheating with the protection an examination of the oil would show this, either that or attaching a load of heat sensors on the box (like toomanytoys was suggesting)would you be aware of any increase in temp before damaging the box or cooking your VC?
Again as you have no record of gearbox temperatures either before or after fitting protection plates and foam which as we all know VW did not fit as standard, and you have not dropped your oil, how could you Andrew safely say that there is no effect on the temperature of your boxes or you are not slowly cooking them to death ??

Ok Paul, I invite you on open forum to supply the VW recommended oil temperature figures for the front diff and gearbox. Then we will run my van for a hundred miles or whatever distance is needed, and drop the oil out of the diff and gearbox and measure the temperatures.

Now for the third time, on open forum, are you going to answer the questions I asked you. You dont have a shread of evidence or information to answer any of them yet you are able to say that my oil is too hot.

What is your gearbox oil temperature?
How much hotter will it get with the bash plates on?
Is my oil getting any hotter with my setup than say, a standard set up crossing the Great Sandy Desert in Australia in an Australian spec vehicle?
Is my oil getting any hotter than yours?
How hot does the oil need to get to before it physically and chemically breaks down enough to 'Cook' the gearbox?

"Mine works with no cooling issues, no stones caught up in it, NO PROBLEMS at all ..." I stand by that statement. You say Im wrong ... well I challenge you to prove me wrong.
Are you going to take up the challenge or continue waffleing on ....?

[silverbullet]

Looks like I should get my thermal mapping head on and record some data...

Hurry up Simon, it's getting ugly (even worse than usual)

[v-lux]

So...anyway.

Whats going on about this gearbox protection then?

[lloydy]

No nails and 2X4 battens

[toomanytoys]

Looks like I should get my thermal mapping head on and record some data...

Hurry up Simon, it's getting ugly (even worse than usual)

I'll bring it to CF (plan to be there Sat lunch, but never know whats gonna happen)

[HarryMann]

2 x large cans of Expandable Foam sounds about right to keep the gearbox and diff nice and snug and up to temperature.

Er, did I miss something back there....