Reversing lights defunct

[getunder]

1985 2L.My MOT is due and the reversing lights will not function. I understand that if fitted they must work for MOT.
Am trying with engine running. And yes have put gearstck into reverse and have reversed so I know it is engaged.!
do I need engine running for them to work or should they work on 2nd contact of ignition switch ? in which case I can safely work underneath without engine running and put them together to check if new switch not working or contacts not making.
( experience has shown that new components are not infallible) Can connect them together by a short croc clips mini jump lead if needed
Both light bulbs work. Contacts on bulbs and in socket are clean and shiny. No current in either bulb socket.
Ceramic Fuses in front of van intact .( not listed as controlling Reverse light anyway)
Fuse in engine bay intact and current at both ends of the holder which has blue /black wires in and out (with engine running). No loose connections
Have fitted new Reverse Light switch and worked female terminals on and off switch about 20 times and slightly crimped them to give a good tight fit. Have tried terminals on both males of switch-does it matter which way round.?
In Haynes Manual fuse is not shown on wiring diagram but is mentioned in text.
Have run out of ideas what to try next . Any bases left to cover ?

[ajsimmo]

Good news. Reverse lights are not a testable item for MOT.

[getunder]

thanks Ajsimmo. My MOT man told me wrong then last time they didn't work.
Have cracked it anyway . Found that the connectors to the switch were not connecting and had to take some sandpaper to them. J-j-j-jiggling them a bit was not enough. should have tried it first time but hindsight is a wonderful thing. On we go !

[AdrianC]

My MOT man told me wrong then last time they didn't work.

They all do that, Sir.

If it ain't explicitly listed as a "Reason for Rejection" in the tester's handbook, it ain't a fail.
http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4i00000101.htm

[getunder]

The MOT Testers Manual does not list Reversing Lights as a test requirement. However there are Motor Vehicle Regulations (1969 ?) that says all lights on a vehicle must be clean and in working order. I have not come across the words "if fitted " as he used. My tester is being pedantic in his interpretation but is arguably correct in failing me as he did once some years ago. I also think he told me that if you fit one only it must be on the offside. Although pedantic in this matter he does cut me some slack in others and as he is just down the road and I have been with him for 30 years man and boy I will stick with him. Not worth falling out over.
My Van is therefore failing the 1969 ? Act if not complying but not the MOT Test. As your MOT man is judge ,jury and executioner there is no argument if you want to pass and get on with life. It is arguable that he is there to MOT Test as prescribed and not to interpret and apply the law. That is someone elses job. You can appeal against an MOT failure and wonder what they would decide. Not forgetting that in the event of an accident arguably caused by failure to comply with the 1969? Regulations Insurance Companies could use this to wriggle out of paying out. Lawyers have Yachts on the Mediteranean paid for by cases like this. You pays your money .......... Toodle Pip.

[ajsimmo]

Not sure about the 1969? regs you quote, I think you probably mean these...

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

Maintenance of lamps, reflectors, rear markings and devices

23.—(1) No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle unless every lamp, reflector, rear marking and device to which this paragraph applies is in good working order and, in the case of a lamp, clean.

(2) Save as provided in paragraph (3), paragraph (1) applies to–

(a)every–(i)front position lamp,(ii)rear position lamp,(iii)headlamp,(iv)rear registration plate lamp,(v)side marker lamp,(vi)end-outline marker lamp,(vii)rear fog lamp,(viii)retro reflector, and(ix)rear marking of a type specified in Part I of Section B of Schedule 19,with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted; and

(b)every–(i)stop lamp,(ii)direction indicator,(iii)running lamp,(iv)dim-dip device,(v)headlamp levelling device, and(vi)hazard warning signal device,with which it is fitted.

(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to–(a)a rear fog lamp on a vehicle which is part of a combination of vehicles any part of which is not required by these Regulations to be fitted with a rear fog lamp;(b)a rear fog lamp on a motor vehicle drawing a trailer;(c)a defective lamp, reflector, dim-dip device or headlamp levelling device on a vehicle in use on a road between sunrise and sunset, if any such lamp, reflector or device became defective during the journey which is in progress or if arrangements have been made to remedy the defect with all reasonable expedition; or(d)a lamp, reflector, dim-dip device, headlamp levelling device or rear marking on a combat vehicle in use on a road between sunrise and sunset."

No mention of reversing lights at all, although later on in Construction & Use regs it just says that they must not be used except when reversing. Duh!

Anyway, glad you got them fixed, nice one. But for future reference if they should pack up again - you are not committing any offence at all.

My tester is being pedantic in his interpretation

No, he's just plain wrong. An MOT tester cannot refuse to issue a certificate on this ground, it's not an obligatory lamp.

[jamesc76]

If he's that anal cover the light with tape if it aint there it cant be tested! But you can point out hes totally wrong!

[AdrianC]

The MOT Testers Manual does not list Reversing Lights as a test requirement. However there are Motor Vehicle Regulations (1969 ?) that says all lights on a vehicle must be clean and in working order. I have not come across the words "if fitted " as he used. My tester is being pedantic in his interpretation but is arguably correct in failing me as he did once some years ago.

Nope, he's only checking for compliance with the MOT test, not for compliance with RVLR or C&U.

I also think he told me that if you fit one only it must be on the offside.

Just think about the number of new cars that have one reversing light, balancing the single foglight - which is on the offside, leaving the reversing light on the nearside...