fudging *&^%$£ starter motor! Help!

[fairwynds]

Hi
amd on 2nd starter in two weeks - see previous thread.

Battery good and terminals clean and tight

Gearbox earth strap good and tight

Starter motor connections good and tight

Last (recon Bosch) starter laster two days and stopped working. Mechanic attends to van at my house, and tests ignition switch and stater, and confirms the new starter is faulty. I returned it and they replaced with another Bosch recon one. Fitted that and it lasted a week.

Can hear the solenoid click (my van is LPG so turned that off so as not to hear the LPG solenoids by mistake)

What else could be the problem, if its not another faulty starter? They are happy to replace/refund, but could I be missing something obvious? It seems weird that two would be faulty??

Any help/ideas much appreciated....I just want to drive the thing!

[Ian Hulley]

Did you replace the starter motor bush in the bellhousing ?

[fairwynds]

Did you replace the starter motor bush in the bellhousing ?

Yes.

[Ian Hulley]

Is the new starter flange painted ? If so clean off any paint from the face where it mates ( ) up to the gearbox.

Ian.

[fairwynds]

Is the new starter flange painted ? If so clean off any paint from the face where it mates ( ) up to the gearbox.

Ian.

When I fitted it (in fact, when I fitted both of them!) I did check, as I figured it's eart contact was via the flange and the two bolts/studs. I didnt see any paint/grease though. I really am at a loss to know why it's stopped working. The chap at the motor factors (where I bought it) is contacting the companies tech dept to ask them to check there batch and see if they have any other ideas. Im taking tomorrow off work to get the starter off and my local VW mechanic will hopefully be able to pop round and do some testing.....

not a happy Hector!

[BOXY]

I know you can't bench test a motor off the van because the pinion shaft is unsupported but is there any reason you can't hook a battery straight onto the starter in-situ with jump leads and test it? If you disconnected the normal connections and put the van in neutral and ignition off, would this method work? There will probably be sparks so make sure there's nothing flamable in range.

To test the solenoid.
Connect the black jump lead to the negative- terminal of the battery and the other end to the body of the starter motor.
Connect the red jump lead to the terminal on the back of the solenoid and touch the other end of the lead to the positive+ terminal of the battery .
The solenoid should click loudly and throw the starter motor pinion forward.
The starter motor shouldn't turn because the only power is to the solenoid.
If it doesn't click then the solenoid is faulty.

To test the starter motor.
Connect the end of the red jump lead onto the large terminal of the starter and then to the battery.
The starter motor should turn over.
If it doesn't the motor is U/S

If both work the problem isn't the starter motor.

[Ian Hulley]

If this was an intermittent fault I'd say it was the ignition switch .... as it isn't though the finger's got to point to the starter itself or it's connections UNLESS of course the switch has now failed completely ?

[fairwynds]

Thanks for the replies chaps, Im on way home to jack up the bus again!
The mechanic I know (ex VW) lives a few doors away and knows the van well - he said he can help tomorrow. The 1st starter he tested with the above way, and used a test lamp, apparently to ensure the fault wasnt at the ignition switch. Its GOT to be something simple, so I will start over again with the earths, both starter earth and battery earth.
Keep you posted.... FW

[fairwynds]

... hmmm, curiouser and curiouser!
Got home, went to start van - started first time! Switched off, turned key again, did not start!
The shop has tested the first starter I had, over 1 hundred times, and its NOT faulty!
Got to be the earth...? (The ignition switch was tested and seemed to be ok)
So..
tomorrow I will remove, clean and refit the battery earth to body strap under the drivers seat, and the earth strap from body to gearbox.
IF I still have the intermittent problem, I will remove the starter and ensure all bolts, nuts and mating faces are cleaned with emery paper and reassemble.
IF I STILL have an intermittent problem then.... I will have to look at the ignition switch and replace it.
IF I still have a problem then, I will give up!

Any further ideas please?

[Cruz]

I had a new starter fitted. It started the van 1st time but if the van cut out all I could hear the next time was a click from the solenoid. It runs fine now after the solenoid was re-shimmed iirc

[fairwynds]

Woo hooooo! It works!
Have spent the day sorting the van, and, touch wood, she works a treat

Over the last few years she developed a lazy start, almost a lag, before firing up, just a second or so before catching. I had presumed it was starter motor, and had checked that gearbox earth strap as suggested.
Eventually she didnt start at all, and I took a good look at the starter, to see that the wire from solenoid to starter was corroded and all but broken off!
I replaced starter, and that worked for a few days, but then non starts again!

It appears that I was right to change the starter, but I also had a batter earth problem. When I dismantled that earth it was corroded and generally not in good enough condition. So thats been replaced.

I ALSO had not enough charge coming from the alternator - when measured at the battery, with a load on, I was only getting 12.1ish volts. Thats why every month I have to top up charge the battery. So Ive checked the battery to find that one cell is buggered - so got a new battery too.

Still wasnt getting enough from the alternator and saw the plug at rear had some green and frayed wires - so cut back to clean and put on new plug, AND fitted a new brush pack/regulator.

Now getting 13.6v even under load

So, thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated. Now..... just gotta do the service....hmmmmmmmm

[WayneT25]

I've followed your "adventure" with interest as I am having the same lazy-lagging starts. I have replaced the battery, only to be told that it is not large enough and that replacing it with a higher spec will resolve the problem. If not I will be following your cures in checking all the earthing points.

Very helpful, thanks

[fairwynds]

I've followed your "adventure" with interest as I am having the same lazy-lagging starts. I have replaced the battery, only to be told that it is not large enough and that replacing it with a higher spec will resolve the problem. If not I will be following your cures in checking all the earthing points.

Very helpful, thanks

I upgraded my battery too yesterday. I dont have the spec to hand but it exceeds the one that was in there (which had been recommended 3 yrs ago, but spec has been upgraded by supplier)

If you need anymore info, let me know. Incidently, I got it for £65...

FW

[skeeb]

I've followed your "adventure" with interest as I am having the same lazy-lagging starts. I have replaced the battery, only to be told that it is not large enough and that replacing it with a higher spec will resolve the problem. If not I will be following your cures in checking all the earthing points.

Very helpful, thanks

I upgraded my battery too yesterday. I dont have the spec to hand but it exceeds the one that was in there (which had been recommended 3 yrs ago, but spec has been upgraded by supplier)

If you need anymore info, let me know. Incidently, I got it for £65...

FW

would be interested in what battery you fitted - specs & sizes etc.

Ta

Skeeb

[WayneT25]

Yes please do supply your updated battery spec for comparison