T25 starter motor really slow

[clem]

quick update got new starter from gsf banged it on bus reconect new battery.........then the worst feelin in the world...puttin key in then boooooom 1`st turn of key its alive, im well happy now

[AdrianC]

My van is suffering the same slow starter problems. I have changed the battery earth strap and the one at the gearbox, but there is also a heavy, braided and unshielded strap right next to the one on the gearbox. I can't find mention of it anywhere. It is pretty well corroded. What is this? Does this need replacing too?

Simple way to see if it's a duff earth - just get a jump lead, clip one end to the battery -ve and the other to a nice clean bit of starter casing. If it starts better, there's a duff earth. Might still be between starter & block, so move the jump lead to a nice clean bit of engine. If it's back to original, you need to clean between starter & engine. If it's still good, it's between engine & earth. Next step is to move the other end of the jump to a bit of bodyshell. If that's still good, then the problem's the earth lead betwen engine & body. If it's back to duff, it's the battery -ve lead.

All you're doing is isolating which of the various links in the chain is at fault.

[corduroyculture]

Thanks Adrian,

I've sorted the starting problem today. I cleaned up all the earthing points, and where the starter meets the bellhousing. I replaced the connectors to the starter, then traced the wires back and found some taped areas with wires spurring off. I traced two of these wires around the engine bay only to find that they weren't connected to anything!!

I undid the tape and the ends connecting to the starter came off in my hand! The cretin who sold the van to me, and ripped me off big time might I add, hadn't even used proper connectors, but had instead just twisted the wires together with a bit of solder and taped them up. I'm surprised the van hasn't gone up in smoke long ago!!

So, that's the main problem sorted, now just the hot starting issue and the dramatically slowing down/dying when on long journeys problems to sort (as well as the dribbly painted rusty bodywork!).

Cheers,

Cord.

[bigladwigan]

Aren't forums brilliant.

I work on one for a living and use them to help with fishing and my fairly new life as a 25 owner.

And having read this I now know where to start looking to cure my lazy but reliable starting issue.

Thanks All.

Ady

[BOXY]

now just the hot starting issue and the dramatically slowing down/dying when on long journeys problems

Have you checked your timing? A two minute job if you've got a timing gun or can borrow one. If your timing is out, hot starting issues and a slow turning starter would be possible symptoms. If the problem on long journeys is caused by over-heating this points towards a possible timing problem as well.

[corduroyculture]

Hi BOXY,

It won't start again this morning!!! It was turning over right as rain last night. I don't get it!!

Looks like checking the timing is the next step. How do I do it without a timing gun?

I'm pi**ed off!!!!!!!!!!

Cord

[corduroyculture]

It won't even start with a jump start..... (

[ermie571]

has it got petrol....the guages are somewhat unreliable...

[BOXY]

You can check the approximate timing statically, but you really need a strobe to see what's happening when the engine's running.

To check the static timing you have to check that a few things line up. Pop off the dizzie cap and look for a tiny nick /notch in the rim. The rotor arm needs to be pointing at this mark. To line up the rotor arm the easiest way is to put the van in fourth gear, take off the hand-brake (on the flat preferably), push the van forward. The rotor arm will chug around slowly so you can line it up pretty well, if you over shoot just pull the van back, then push it forward again. The dizzie shaft normally has a bit of back-lash so lining up is a bit of an approximation. Next you pull down the number plate and look at the pulley, the timing mark should line up with the zero degree graduation on the timing scale. If the "nearly impossible to see" timing mark is in view take the opportunity to dab a spot of white paint /tipex etc. to make it easier to see next time. If the mark is miles away nudge the van to line it up with zero. Next slacken off the dizzie pinch bolt and turn the dizzie body so the nick in the rim lines up with the rotor arm. Double check that when the dizzie cap is back on that the rotor is pointing to the connection the No1 lead is attached to. Setting up the timing statically should let the engine start but personally I wouldn't drive very far until I'd checked the timing dynamically with a strobe.

Is the van actually turning over? If it's not try putting an ammeter between the +ve battery terminal and battery lead with everything off and see if there's a current drain anywhere. Maybe the battery is draining over-night?

[corduroyculture]

Hi all,

I put the battery on full charge for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon, then let it trickle charge all night. Just went out to try it and it started up straight away. Let it tick over for a few minutes then turned it off. Went to start it again and it won't start!! The starter does turn over very slowly indeed but won't fire. This is doing my head in!!!

How can it start perfectly with a fully charged battery one minute, then not the next?? The really ropey wiring to the starter has been made good with proper connectors, and the two wires which connected to nothing have been taken out of the equation altogether. I'm going to struggle to check the timing if it won't start again, and my drive is on a slope so I can't even push it along the flat.

I am rapidly running out of ideas (and patience!!)

[BOXY]

Can you put a multimeter across the battery terminals and see what the voltage reads off-load, and then see if it drops as you turn the key and the starter is turning. Long test leads or an assistant would be handy.

It sounds as if the battery has just enough juice for one successful start but is kippered for the second one?

[corduroyculture]

The battery reads 12.78V unloaded and between 9 and 10V trying to start. The interior light dims and the headlights.

It wouldn't start yesterday though with a jump from my Dad's heavy duty battery. That's with effectively 2 batteries on it!! I don't want to have to shell out for a new battery if that isn't the problem (although I think I perhaps need a higher Ah one anyway).

[BOXY]

A battery straight off a charger will read 13.2v and drop to about 12.6v after a while. Ideally the voltage shouldn't drop below 11v when cranking the the engine over. When you're jump starting the van you are using the good battery's charge to turn the van over and charge a dead battery. This might be why the jump start isn't working.

If you've got a battery supplier local to you ask them to check your battery first. They can check if you've got a dead cell or sulphated plates. I got my starter battery from a scrap yard for £10 its a 65Ah and apart from needing a charge after the freezing weather combined with being parked up for 3 weeks its been reliable for over a year.

[corduroyculture]

Hi all,

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and advice on this. My starting problems are now finally sorted. After overhauling all the starter and earth connections I've discovered that it was the copper bush in the starter that was causing all the problems. It was a sod to get out but I stuck at it and finally removed it with one of the largest taps in my set!

Keep an eye out for me on other threads because I'm bound to need more assistance in the future. I was ripped off big time by the bloke who sold me my camper and am a bit out of my depth!!

Think I may have a dodgy split/charge system. If the wiring in the rest of the van is anything to go by, this will definately be wrong!! I have a Hella relay but have no idea whether it's wired up correctly. How do I check?

Thanks,

Cord.

[BOXY]

Glad you got it sorted. I can't offer any help with the split-charge set-up, my van has got a ZIg unit. Someone will be along to help sure enough.