Diesel £1.35/litre; now its getting serious ..........

[syncropaddy]

now his engine is cutting out!

Change the filter. The SVO cleans all the "pooh" out of the tank and deposits it in the filter. Worth a try...

Suggested that to him. I am lead to believe that there are varying qualities of Veggie Oil suitable for engines. Can anyone verify this?

A mate of mine recycles cooking oils and sells a 30% diesel, 2% petrol and 68% recycled cooking oils mix. I have used it in the past and I cannot detect any deficiencies in performance or consumption. I had a full tank of it when I left for Syncro 25 and the van performed like any other underpowered 1.6 TD would but with a smell of chips !! The savings to be gained in Ireland are minimal due to our tax laws so I would only buy it from him if I was passing his place.

[ajsimmo]

I am lead to believe that there are varying qualities of Veggie Oil suitable for engines. Can anyone verify this?

Short answer: Yes

Pure rapeseed oil is the best, burns cleanest and meets European Standards for use as a biofuel. Also makes your exhaust smell nice, like a barbecue. Service intervals usually unchanged (perhaps one FF change after first 30L ). Can be used neat in the summer, and 10% diesel added in winter, but an old engine might struggle to start from cold on this. I stick to 50% and it starts even at -12C or whatever it was in December.

If you are using a modified soya oil, such as cheapo KTC vegetable oil, I've read in several articles and forums that it's probably best not to exceed 30%veg to 70% fossil, as it tends to coat injector internals and gum rings if used above 50%, and smells more like a badly burnt sausage on a barbecue. More frequent oil & filters advised.

If you use WVO from your local chippy, it could be anything regardless of what it says on the tin so be careful, and filter it to 1 micron or less. Smells like a rank chippie cooking with month old lard. Always carry spare fuel filters on this stuff!
IMHO old reclaimed waste oil is better suited to processing into biodiesel, and then don't put it in anything with a Lucas/CAV pump.

Trouble with all this is now there's no offers on anywhere atm, veg oil is as much as diesel! Doh!

[syncropaddy]

Interesting. You raise two points there, the first being starting in -12 degrees. We managed -12C during December where I live and had no problems starting. I Googled this as I was always under the impression that the Winter Diesel we get was good for -12C but it appears that the standard is -15C . All diesel sold in the UK/Ireland legally has to have a CFPP (cold filter plugging point) of a maximum of -15°c, this includes blends of diesel with up to 7% bio component but most of the bigger names spec their diesel to -22C. Arctic diesel is good for -30C and has a smell more like paraffin with more de waxing agents in it. I believe that in the Highlands of Scotland where is gets quite nippy, people would add 10% Kerosene to prevent the fuel gelling.

So... how does mixing it with Veggie Oil affect this figure?

WVO is not as bad as it sounds as 'month old lard' as you put it, can be spotted straight away and removed as it solidifies. Lard is added to most chippie oils as it adds flavour but has the effect of shortening the useful life of cooking oils. Lard cant be used in any form of pressure cooker either so most chippies use both and the waste product is a mix. Basically its down to the recycler and how it is refined (like you say with a 1 micron filter) as to the quality of his WVO.

I have asked my pal for a more detailed breakdown of what his mix is but I know he sources his WVO from the catering/fast food sector.

[syncropaddy]

He confirms its a 30% diesel, 1% petrol and 69% recycled cooking oils mix with traces of methanol

[ajsimmo]

So... how does mixing it with Veggie Oil affect this figure?

There is no doubt that mixing vegi into diesel affects cold starting, but to what extent I cannot say. My own experience is that, even as cold as -12, it's fine on rapeseed up to 50%. It might be ok colder than that,but I can't say what the limit is as it's never failed to start (and it's never been colder than that).

There are many variables, including the type and viscosity of the veg oil you put in, and it's individual reaction to cold temperatures. This will vary from one oil to another - for example, Asda 100% pure rapeseed oil has a thinner consistency when cold, and stays clear (no cloudiness), and when added to the diesel tank at no more than 50% it does not appear to affect cold starting.

30% diesel, 1% petrol and 69% recycled cooking oils mix with traces of methanol

What you are talking about is a modified WVO mix, not pure SVO as we were discussing above. Modified WVO is a different thing altogether, and there are infinite ratios and recipes out there. If your pals mix works well for him, then that's great. Personally I don't use it as I've heard some tales of bad experiences - I just referred to the horrible smell from those that do use it.

Smells like a rank chippie cooking with month old lard

I didn't mean to infer it had lard in it. But maybe it does....

BTW found a local supplier of biodiesel @ 89ppl. Going to give it a try and will report on the results.

[jebiga41]

Paul has just put almost 30l of veggie oil in his tank ....... now his engine is cutting out!

Was using cheapo veg oil prob soya got the mix ratio wrong so syphoned and filled with diesel and no prob still smells bad tho think will go max 10-20% on this stuff but at 69cents a litre cheap as chips, 29l for 20 euro compared to diesel at 30 euro for 20l, nearly half the price.
How does sunflower oil perform does any one know?

[Aidan]

it's madness using food as fuel regardless of the economics

[jebiga41]

it's madness using food as fuel regardless of the economics

As opposed to ones own body? Or using something that is explosive? Which sounds madder ? You petrol/gas boys are just jealous

[Titus A Duxass]

As opposed to ones own body?

Now there's an idea, build the old beer gut, get some Liposuction and then render down.
You could get soap and fuel.

[ajsimmo]

it's madness using food as fuel regardless of the economics

Succinct. But tell that to Rudolph Diesel, who ran his first demo engine on peanut oil. Barking, he was!

But why is it madness?
Having discounted the economic benefits you must hold that opinion based on other arguments. I'm guessing ecological, environmental or humanitarian? Cannot these same arguments be pointed at the extraction, processing and burning of the planet's finite supply of fossil fuels (over 40 million tonnes of it a year in the UK alone, just for road transport )?

On the basis that both arguments are right, I think we can shorten it to:
"It's madness using fuel"

[Bwana John]

Today I had to fuel up again,same place,and Diesel was £1.37.9 per litre! Cost seem to vary quite a lot depending where you are. Any fresh ideas for fuel savings for all (PETROL AND DIESEL) Syncros?

[ThorAlex]

well, gassers can convert to e85, or maybe run a mix of e85 and regular gas? E85 has a higher octane number than gas so it might not work too well in a stock engine, Maybe something can be added to lower octane number? Would be interesting to see someone convert a there van to work on moonshine, that's pretty easy to get up here, and if you by a lot you might be able to get the price down to sensible levels, although, at least up here, it would still be illegal

Also the Norwegian government is clever, they first financed building a biodiesel plant, then put a tax on biodiesel (making it more expensive than regular diesel) so the plant went bust Talk about stupid!

Btw, wwo/swo can be mixed with paraffin or heating oil to improve cold resistance. Also, you might be able to make a diesel run on pure heating oil, not sure about that? The ultimate would be a multi-fuel engine like the old M35 truck, they can run on almost anything that burns.

Just some thoughts wile being bored at a botanic lecture

Oh, and the government has built a test plant making e85 from waste wood and plant material, including building materials from teared down old houses and the left-overs from foresting industry.