Starter motor bush - HELP !!

[skeeb]

bit of advice needed


Replacing the starter motor support bush today - got the old one out eventually. however, when I was trying to put the new bush in I dropped it into a void/hole just underneath where the bush is supposed to be located. Tried feeling to see how far it had gone down but could not feel it or the bottom of the void/hole. Has it dropped into the gearbox? will it cause any damage if I just leave it there (wherever it has gone)???? I bought a two bushes just in case I messed the first one up - so will try again tomorrow...

Hope I'm making sense and somebody will know what i'm on about


Thanks

Skeeb

[Aidan]

dropped into the bellhousing, unlikely to do any damage the bronze bush is softer than anything else in there so will likely just get broken up and the bits will be there when you change the clutch next

[skeeb]

phew ! thank you Aidan for taking the time to reply


Ta

Skeeb

[gsmoke]

Well, you learn something new every day.
I didnt think there was enough room for the bush to drop because of the engine case meeting the end of the bellhousing.
You put the bush into the correct hole, and not the hole to the right that the bolt for the starter motor goes through? (I only ask because I did that the first time!).
If you did that it would end up falling onto the engine bay.

[ade700]

im takin my starter motor off tmo is it an easy job and has anyone got any hints or tips

ps sorry for the thread hijack

[toolsntat]

im takin my starter motor off tmo is it an easy job and has anyone got any hints or tips

ps sorry for the thread hijack

Remember one of the nuts is inside the engine bay

Andy

[ade700]

im takin my starter motor off tmo is it an easy job and has anyone got any hints or tips

ps sorry for the thread hijack

Remember one of the nuts is inside the engine bay

Andy

[skeeb]

Gsmoke - yeah it was the correct hole - i just dropped it being careless


Ade700 - fairly straight foward to remove starter motor - make sure you disconnect the battery before you do anything !! have a read of the wiki beforehand also




Skeeb

[fairwynds]

Hi all you starter motor replacers!

Fitted my new one this week. Apart from the fact that the motor factors have supplied a FAULTY unit (grrrrrr!!!) which is being replaced Tuesday, again (!) - the jobs pretty straightforward...
Mines an early 1900 DG engine, so there may be some slight differences (?):-

1) SAFELY jack up rear of van, using axle stands / ramps / chocks as required. Im sure the job could be done without doing so, but giving yourself more space will be preferable.

2) The starter motor comprises of (a) the motor and (b) the solenoid. You replace both as one, they are joined together.

3) DISCONNECT YOUR BATTERY first!

4) On end of solenoid are a threaded post/bar with two fat wires going to it (one from your alternator and one from your battery. There is also a thinner, push on ‘spade’ type connector going to a fitting on the end of the alternator. This is known as the ‘exciter wire’. Lastly there is a fitted, thick wire going from the rear of solenoid into the main body of the starter motor, though a rubber/plastic grommet.
ALL these wires should be checked for security and degradation (breaks, green rusty muck etc) as they all have important roles and any one could give you starting problems. If they are sound and secure, they SHOULD have a coating of terminal grease ie ‘Nocrode’.
If you are sure that the wiring is not at fault, and you need to replace the whole unit, then proceed as follows:

5) Pull off exciter wire. Undo the nut holding the two fat wires onto the post (13mm?). Don’t lose the washer/s and nut (pop them back on the post). Ensure wires are tucked out of the way.

6) The starter is bolted to the gearbox ‘bell housing’ by two fittings. One is a nut fitted to a stud which you can easily see at bottom edge of starter. The other is more fiddly, being on the opposite side of the starter. It can be reached from other side of gearbox, and over the top, but take care not to damage your clutch hydraulic cylinder/pipes which you will see there. Using a spanner and or socket set, undo the lower nut. You may find that the stud comes out with it, due to the nut being seized to it. No matter, as long as its removed. You can always renew the stud and nut later.
The other bolt on the far side of starter is a long bold with an ‘allen’ type socket head on the starter motor side, and a nut on the bellhousing (just visible from inside the engine bay). You need to insert a suitable allen key/hexagonal wrench into the head of the bolt and use a ring spanner on the nut. it’s a bit fiddly but will come apart. Again, don’t lose these bits!

7) Now the nuts and bolts are off, you can free the starter. It MAY need a tap with a hammer to loosen it. Withdraw the starter, towards the front of the van, and down, past the water pipes (which should be flexible enough to push aside). Take care, as the starter is quite heavy for a small unit, mind your head!

If you need to (and you SHOULD do this) - replace the ‘Oilite’ bush inside the bell housing.
Let me explain. Look at the starter motor you have removed. See the little cog wheel on a spindle? The starter operates when you turn your ignition key. As you turn the key two things happen: firstly, that spindle EXTENDS (you can see this if you take a firm grip of it a pull, its spring loaded so take care). As it extends an inch or so, the little cog engages with teeth on the ‘flywheel’ within the bell housing, and (should) immediately start spinning (using high ampage output from your battery, that we call ‘cranking amps‘), thereby driving the flywheel, and thus the crankshaft and all the bits needed to make the magic happen!
As soon as the engine fires up, the flywheel speeds up, you release the key (and it springs back a notch) and the starter spindle retracts again. Remember when you last had the engine running and turned the key the WRONG way, and heard that awful grinding/crunch noise? That’s the little cog trying to reengage with the already spinning flywheel - not happy, lets try not to do that in future!!
As the starter spindle engages the little cog with the flywheel and tries to turn the engine over, there is generated a large sideways force, trying to throw the spindle SIDEWAYS, away from the flywheel, In order to stop this, but allow the spindle to spin freely, there is a bush, some call it copper or brass, but strictly speaking its an ‘Oilite’ bush, and it it a tight, push fit into the bell housing.

*** removal of the old bush, and refitting the new one is covered in detail in the WIKI ***

The only thing I’d add is: use electrical tape/string etc, whatever it takes, to NOT lose the bush, or your tools, into the bell housing!! IF you do lose the bush and cant retrieve it, it will probably be mashed into pieces by the flywheel teeth and stay at bottom of bell housing until the clutch is next changed, so it ought not cause any problems for you.

9) Fit your new starter motor, ensuring you correctly fit the wires and coat it all in Nocrode or similar (it gets an awful lot of road debris and splashing in that position!)

10) reconnect battery, lower the van back to ground, and away you go.

11) With all these jobs, check security of unit again after a few hundred miles…just in case.

[ade700]

is this the bush ill need
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-12-volt-starte ... 336435a727

[Hacksawbob]

Nice one Fairywynds Wiki'd that

Looks about right

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ do them as well

[ade700]

Nice one Fairywynds Wiki'd that

Looks about right

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ do them as well

[ghost123uk]

Can I just add = don't try to run / test your starter motor unless it is properly mounted on the engine.
It only has a bearing, at one end, (the other bearing is the bush mentioned above) and if you power it up off the van the guts of it will get damaged.

[fairwynds]

Nice one Fairywynds Wiki'd that

Looks about right

http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ do them as well

Fanks.....

[ade700]

im well chuffed i looked at the prices for new starter motors and wasn't impressed lol so i took my old one to a local company the replaced the bearing, brushes, solenoid and even painted it £35 with a 12 month guarantee