Country File Investigation - Off-road drivers and driving

[HarryMann]

I was also horrified by some of the shots of damage to obviously sensitive and rare habitat, as well as the aerial views of the helicopter 'convoy chase' and the trail of damage in their wake..

[jed the spread]

I put the whole "abuse" of lanes in preceptive in my own mind this year with what I have seen. I havnt done absolutely millions of them but a good selection throughout the UK and especially Wales this year and here are a couple of scenario's,

Salisbury plane,

I took the family on a wild camping trip and ended up driving a few of the lanes. A group of five or six 4x4's of various kinds, some highly modified some not so much. They had four or five bikes with them and when the cars where driving slowly and responsibly on the easy bits the bikes just drove around and around them up high on the banks and off the lanes like some kind of super wasp's. They were clearly board with the easy driving untill they hit a genuine hard bit and drove round it, off the lane


Surrey,

These lanes are really quite easy and most, (if not all) are just scenic drives with the odd tight bit thrown in to keep it interesting. There is quite abit of evidence of tyre tracks and stuff off the lanes that obviously causes damage. Like I said the lanes are very easy and quite obvious on what line to drive and no need to get your wheels spinning, digging at banks etc causing more of the biggest cause of damage to these lanes in Surrey, erosion.


Wales,

A walker rolling rocks infront of the vans from the banks as we tried to drive through.... Causing damage to the side of the lane?



I would say that most of the damage is done by people who cant drive properly and are so hooked up in trying to look the part that they have forgotten to learn the basics of how and why to pick a line on a lane and cause minimum impact, these people should just stick to pay and play centers.

Maybe some kind of 4x4 driving test should be done before you are allowed on a byway and as a compromise the authorities could open some of the closed lanes as the the people who drive them will at least be able to grasp the basics and cause minimum erosion, just enough to keep these roads in the condition that they were formed in the first place.

jed

[eltee]

i agree with you Jed, the drivers with no experience are wrecking the lanes, slightly off topic but these drivers are the idiots in the snow aswell, we have seen them fleeing around here on the narrow lanes, with no regard for anything.

[ELVIS]

In Wales alot of damage has been caused by 'Off Piste' driving, whether accidentally or willfully although ignorance is no defence.

You look at Strata Florida/Wayfarer/Sarn Helen etc etc . Parallel tracks been created churning up a 'new route'

[HarryMann]

I think the bigger issues are:

Very large convoys (> 5 or 6 at a time)
same people & vehciles driving some lanes too regularly

driving non approved/prohibited byways

Licences should be issued for registered clubs to drive the more sensitive lanes/national parks etc
(limiting convoy size, and repeat frequency and giving some degree of group control and quality)*

* This was an opportunity lost IMHO when a lot of lanes were upgraded 4 years ago now, they should have been run under licence
*To climb the last part (last 800 ft) of Mt Teide (Volcano crater)on Tenerife, you have to have a (free) licence.. this limits the numbers (preservation) as
well as ensuring only those serious about it and prepared bother (automatic H&S) - a good idea in my opinion...

This would certainly force a lot of 4WD and Biker groups to limit some of their activities or be identified !

[slobbo]

We have nothing left in Scotland. None nada zip and it sucks. If I want to go laning I have to drive 200 miles plus first. I have a local pay and play but that is a 40 acre site which I have seen. I wanted to use the Syncro to see some of the country that most would not normally see but it isn't possible now unless I walk. And I don't do hill walking. In Scotland on a lot of the paths exist bothys. These bothys are small cottages that are available to walkers to stay in. In the past they have been maintained not by the walkers but by the 4x4 fraternity. What I want to see now is walkers taking materials and tools up to maintain the very shelter they have taken for granted for years.

What I don't understand is how is driving on a track is destroying the countryside. People need the track to walk on. Having a track 2 meters wide running through the countryside of thousands of acres is 2 parts of bugger all. So how does it have a detrimental affect on what people seem to think is all of the countryside. We are not asking to create new lanes just drive on the ones that already exist.

I don't know how many of you have been assisting in the big freeze but maybe the next time you are about to pull someone out of the snow ask them if they think the rights of way should be closed to off road vehicles. If they say yes leave the b"stards to freeze.

Funny the government has been pricing us off the roads for years now but I wonder how they would cope in this weather without us. People would literally be dying because medical staff could not respond. Maybe we should all refuse to help until they rewrite the legislation to give us the access back and reduce the road tax. (I am kidding of course - helping in this sort of weather is a necessity)

[ELVIS]

I think the bigger issues are:

Very large convoys (> 5 or 6 at a time)

Something i know a lot of people have debated for some time. I am of the opinion its more of a 'political thing' , big numbers dont bode well to an onlooker.

If anything i guess it could be argued that one larger group would be better in that everybody would be communicating properly so could (1) All could follow the same exact line to prevent uneccessary damage (2) The line could be varied to prevent damage so everyones a winner!

4 groups of 5 spaced 2 miles apart are going to do exactly the same damage as 1 group of 20 , it just 'looks better' to the Red Sox!

[HarryMann]

and gives them a chance to recover for a few minutes !

Propped on the side of a steep bank for 4 minutes can be a bit testy I suppose, rather than 4 times for 1 minute over an hour or so

[ELVIS]

Never thought of it that way Harry , the earths surface shaped over millions of years being able to regenerate/repair itself within minutes

[syncrosimon]

I have always thought that the choice of footpaths available to the walker is so vast, and on the moors and other open areas with open access the choice is almost limitless. Therefore there is a choice that the pedestrian can make about where he/she can walk, and in this choice they can choose if they want to take a route where they are likely to encounter a vehicle. As I said earlier people like to walk on vehicle tracks because it is the easiest place to walk, like people in the snow walking on the road surface because it is easier, the same thing happens in the country. When pedestrians encounter a muddy bit they are annoyed, and this is not really a proportional reaction. The National Parks and National Trust etc spend Millions on overused footpaths, not in discouraging people in using them, but managing people and how they approach a mountain. For example the bottom half of Ben Nevis is a completely man made surface. With vehicle rights of way, overuse or damage is rarely met with any repair, and not without a great deal of negativity. The vehicle user is contributing billions into the economy whilst the walker very little in comparison. The negatives are always easier to focus on than the positives for the anti 4x4 lobby, and imho the people damaging the lanes are likely to be part time hobbyist who will move on to some other past time leaving us with their legacy.

I dont know what the answer is. All joining the TRF could be one approach.

[silverbullet]

The erosion caused by millions of footsteps every year on the same popular and accessible trails has caused serious localised erosion problems in all of the national parks. Land access is a problem for walkers, climbers, canoeists and also mountain bikers (as the new boys on the scene, they are in the process of forming a national representative body to help educate the masses IIRC)
I think some of the problem stems from the human trait of looking at the world through a microscope instead of looking at the broader view:
As a walker, I have witnessed the results of the thoughtlessness of other less considerate walkers as well as greenlaners. It's what drives walkers to find more remote locations to visit I suppose; to avoid the overcrowded "delights" of mountains like Snowdon *officially the country's most boring mountain* which can only be for the good: spreading out the wear and tear on the National Parks and so giving the land a chance to recover.
Nevertheless, the most basic interpretations of the Contry Code states "tread lightly" but if the path is through a mire it's human nature to go around instead of through.
But in a vehicle driven offroad, the potential for doing a great deal more damage in an infinitesimally shorter timescale is blindingly obvious and the privelege of driving these trails has to be tempered with an overriding sense of resposibility for one's actions.
Regrettably, not everyone greenlaning is possessed with this sense.

[syncrosimon]

Land access is a problem for walkers, climbers, canoeists and also mountain bikers (as the new boys on the scene, they are in the process of forming a national representative body to help educate the masses IIRC).

Agreed. We were walking on Exmoor in the summer in a particularly beautiful valley, on a bridlepath. Some fully suspended mtb's approached us at speed from behind, and the people walking in front of use (in there 50's and 60's) said "watch out, here come the hooligans" And they meant it, they were proper cross. The bikers were doing nothing wrong, except excersising there lawful right. It is very perplexing. I think the townies complain more than the country folk, they dont get the balance thing as well as peeps in the countryside.

Education is the key, (on both sides) and I bet that the majority of complainers are nearer the coffin than the classroom.

[Fin]

I don't understand why walkers - who get to use the land for free - think that it is OK to brand other users as hooligans or what-ever
As a mountain biker - a proper one, it's my job I can handle a bike, and a car, not adverse to walking either.

It just comes down to people having a lack of respect for others - be it grumpy old redsocks, mountain bikers or off road motoring.
Just one useless cockhead is enough to spoil it for us all.
Weather I'm riding a mountain bike, driving a 4x4, even razzing about on a crosser - I always try to show respect to others, giving way, etc...
Maybe some drivers on the road should have lessons in courtesy, they bloody need it.
The amount of times I get acknowledged for pulling into let someone past isn't huge, granted usually by mums with their 2 offspring in their over inflated pretend off road car (but that's another rant ha ha)

What we need is lessons in respect and courtesy..... maybe as part of the national curriculum and as a top up when you do your driving test