Country File Investigation - Off-road drivers and driving

[HarryMann]

John Craven ran a 'Country File Investigation' snippet last week on Off-Roading in the countryside, covering the contention between various factions, namely horseriders and walkers and the motorised fraternity.

BIkers were featured and TRA (Trail Riders Association), quite a lot, speeds mentioned, convoy sizes, serious damage by off-road cowboy convoys as well as police helicopter chasing a big rogue element in a National Park, mentions of walkers and horse riders being almost bowled over by enduro trail bikers etc etc

Won't say what my take on it was just yet, but would like to hear what anyone else who saw it made of it... ?

[syncrosimon]

I think that as the off road network of lanes has been used by vehicles of one sort or another for centuries that just closing them like Somerset has done is fundamentally wrong.

I also hate to see overused and damaged lanes. I really enjoy off roading the syncro and see many places where people have deviated from the way to make it a little more challenging. This I do not like.

I would rather a future similar to the Picos de Europa where it seems to be better managed, than one where we simply are not allowed.

The reason so many walkers and other users get annoyed is that a vehicle track is by far the nicest place to walk on, as you can walk side by side etc, they just don't like to see the vehicles using them.

This is one reason I will not get mud terrains, as if the syncro cant get somewhere on A/T's then should it be there at all. For me there is no fun in mud plugging on a highway, that should be left to the pay and play sites.

Modified vehicles are almost always the problem, as a person who wishes to modify something is more likely to want to explore the limits of it's off road ability, and this is the problem as I see it.

Motorcyclists can be really antisocial and intimidating to the walker.

Trouble is banning off roading is easier by a massive margin than trying to legislate against damage, so I expect that that is the more likely outcome.

[sonic23]

Clive,
I saw bits of this whilst wrestling the 3 year old!
Whilst the dear old BBC attempted to get several view points across, the footage shown that featured 4 wheel vehicles, was not exactly minimum footprint was it?

If I was watching this on Sunday, and it was my first exposure to the offroad fraternity, then based on the content that was shown I would say ban all vehicles as they're just churing and wrecking the countryside, and have no consideration for anyone else.

Rich

[silverbullet]

By way (no pun intended this time) of a comparison, on our local common land where we walk the dogs there is evidence of a few local horsey types who clearly don't want to keep to the one or two bridleways that cross the area. They go out of their way to find the fallen trees across paths - most of which aren't any sort of marked right of way anyhow as it's common land - and ride up and down jumping them, churning up the ground reducing it to a mire on the lower end of the drainage catchment.
Very country friendly. Never mind the militant riders who don't like the dog walkers and do their best to mow you down without so much as an "excuse me"
I can fully appreciate the sentiments of some ramblers and hillwalkers but I'd like to think that I have a more balanced view than some as I like all sorts of outdoor activities: on foot, motor driven, on water and hanging by my fingernails!
I agree with Simon that if greenlaning is continued to be portrayed (and perpetuated) as a "monster 4x4 tractor pulling" pastime on BOATs, RUPPs and the like then we're all stuffed.
It doesn't matter if a few offroaders are acting responsibly, it's the broad brush approach to this kind of sensationalist journalism, from such usually a usually even-handed source as the BBC, is doing none of us any favours. Remember that the Rambler's society has many members in the House of Lords and The Other Place. We need them on-side, not as adversaries.

[..lee..]

as far as i`m aware and please correct me if i`m wrong but these are public highways aren`t they and the laws of the road should be obeyed. these monster trucks with the wheels sticking out from the bodywork aren`t legal.

i think these routes could be policed preferably by respectable club members of all byway users, empowered by the police. then maybe the idiots would think twice.

there`s plenty of opertunities to ride, drive and walk irresponsibly on closed to public events. thats why i started rallying.

[silverbullet]

The problem is public ignorance. There was an old scrote looking down on us while we were negotiating the first really off-camber track on the Surrey Lanes day, muttering "it's only supposed to be a path..."
Now WE know it's a byway, but tell that to him or the grumpy lady with the dog or the mountain biker (who Jed tailgated mercilessly till he fell over on a snowy climb N not big or clever but it was amusing. He'd never have made it anyway)
If the powers that be can see a vote winner and we're in the minority then it's byways closure legislation and an end to our responsible fun, thanks to the few who can't behave themselves or be bothered to learn how to read a map.

[ELVIS]

I agree with Simon that if greenlaning is continued to be portrayed (and perpetuated) as a "monster 4x4 tractor pulling" pastime on BOATs, RUPPs and the like then we're all stuffed.
.

RUPPs were reclassified to Rbs in 2000 IIRC.

BOATs arnt always what they seem after NERC. OS maps are waaayyyyyy out of date in this respect.

Best to check what is 'legal' with RoW Officer and NOT OS map. He/she should have a 'Definitive map' for perusale if you ask them.

NERC killed laning overnight................

I do think that we are partly repsonsible though as 'users'. All the years 'lanes' were used/damaged and as a community little was put back in. All the reclassified lanes just are not viable to have money spent on them for upkeep.

[Essex Nige]

http://www.byways.org.uk/DEFRA_Overview.htm

[Wolfsburg Willy]

I didn't see the programme, but I can imagine the bias. Here in the Lakes there are several problems, including would you believe Mountain Bikers and Walkers. The Bikers seem in general not to have bothered to read the Country Code, using footpaths instead of cycle paths or bridleways, much to the annoyance of Walkers and even going cross-country when it suits them. Mountain bikes, not having low pressure tyres tend to carve up the soft ground, with some damage taking years to 'heal'. The walkers on the other hand arrive in their thousands, tramping up the same paths on the fells. When they encounter a patch of sloppy bog, caused by the heavy footfall, they walk around it, making the footpath ever wider until the 'scars' can be seen from literally miles away! Strangely enough, off-road drivers are considered a minimal 'nuisance'; they treat other users with consideration (usually) because of the bad press that they receive and the vehicles, driven slowly, cause very little damage. If there wasn't something controversial about the issue, you can bet that Countryfile wouldn't have bothered it!

[Russel]

A very bias program and as Rich said if this was your first encounter with off roading fraternity then it will give you a very bad impression.
The footage shot of the the group playing and being interview was "i would hope" on a play and pay site which is not laning in any way or form.
Unfortunately in the UK we are and always will be demonized as the people that are killing the earth and destroying it for all others.
When out of the UK and Europe there is a far better attitude towards the use of vehicles for pleasure,even encouraged.
Many years ago my father showed me an article printed in the early 30's that was about how bad vehicles are for the UK and this sentiment has unfortunately never changed amongst some.
Russel

[T'Onion]

When I and the group I ride with go out on the bikes , we have a rule of stopping and cutting the engine when we come up across horses , we also have a roll by walkers rule .
It is very easy to 'speed' but again our riding group frown upon this , I have rode with other group who have a much more 'gun oh' riding style ,

[silverbullet]

http://www.byways.org.uk/DEFRA_Overview.htm

Well done Nige. Very interesting reading.
Elvis, I'll admit my ignorance on the finer detail and relatively recent reclassfications as I have been more interested in contour line counting for route cards and available daylight while on the hill, rather than vehicle access legalities. Minibus usually parked in a NT carpark
Footpath rights of way rarely change and I'm new to greenlaning

[ELVIS]

If you are bored of life and have a few spare hours , google NERC and CROW act.

Killed laning overnight. All the half decent lanes in mid/south Wales that are/were left to drive have had TROs thrown on them just to cheer you up.

[jebiga41]

If you are bored of life and have a few spare hours , google NERC and CROW act.

Killed laning overnight. All the half decent lanes in mid/south Wales that are/were left to drive have had TROs thrown on them just to cheer you up.

Should try Ireland lads not a hope of laning anywhere here all shut down unless your on very good terms with a few local farmers, our only off roading over here is a few disused quarries, pay and play sites or the other option is the club that I joined which leases two forests which seems to the way forward for us. Hopefully greenlaning will survive in wales and whatever parts of the uk that haven't been NERC'd or CROW'd didn't see the programme in question but I'm sure our sort probably didn't come out well but hopefully our actions will speak for themselves as I personally am very impressed at the etiquette shown by all the syncronauts and long may it continue

[HarryMann]

Whilst the dear old BBC attempted to get several view points across, the footage shown that featured 4 wheel vehicles, was not exactly minimum footprint was it?

If I was watching this on Sunday, and it was my first exposure to the offroad fraternity, then based on the content that was shown I would say ban all vehicles as they're just churing and wrecking the countryside, and have no consideration for anyone else.

Richard, that is well put and pretty well what I felt too

I also think Russel makes a good point, that their selection of a Pay & Play whilst obvious to us and J Craven, as illustrative of 'innocent' land rental for 'playing... would NOT be realised by a vast majority of the casual viewing public. They did not pick the interviewees too carefully either..