Stupid rocker gasket

[fix]

Didnt make it to the nursery ended up setting off once we got up Friday morning, it was chucking it down and we just wanted to get home!

Well the van story continues, and gets worse....


It turns out some wires at the front of the van had been grinded through when i cut out abit of the front panel. Guess what, the oil warning light was cut.

Started the van up today and there seems to be a slight ticking/knocking noise at idle which comes and goes. It definately wasnt there before, but as I say it isnt always there its intermittent. Something has obviously got damaged even with a couple of litres of oil in the van, my mate says the first thing to get damaged with low oil is the crank shell bearings.

Now the oil warning light is working, its flashing all the time at idle and also at low revs when driving. As soon as the revs drop it comes on again.

So its highly likely the warning light has been on all the time, Ive drove 100 miles so far.


I cant imagine there is actually low oil pressure as its got a new pump, i put a new blue oil sensor by the pushrods and a new grey sensor by the water pump and have had 20W40 in the van then 20W50 when i refilled after the leaking rocker cover.

Can anyone please advise on the damage/low oil pressure, im at the end of my tether here!

[fix]

Just spoken with a mate and he said is the relief valve working ok. I remember when i put the valve in and pushed it up into the hole it went in ok, but stayed where it was when i tried to get it back out with my finger. He said that could trigger a sensor to say there was low oil pressure.

[Mr Bean]

To be honest thats a load of balls, they even teach you in college to use a smear of grease on one side of the gasket[/quote]

My rebuilders - no names no pack drill - failed twice to cure such an oil leak so I gave up on them and stuck the seal to the cover reluctantly using the slightly inferior red hylomar and sorted the problem straight away. Although why on earth they stopped making Red Hermetite I can't imagine as this was completely oil, water and petrol proof and stuck to anything including your fingers like poo to a blanket.
True a soaking in water for cork gaskets and a smear of grease in general are text book practices but these fail to take into consideration the ravishes of 20/30 years of use and rework. The idea is to prevent oil leaks not blindly apply a text book process! Horses for courses I say! Incidentally I learned to my cost that even if used sparingly the much vaunted Blue Hylomar can come adrift in small beads which can find their way into oil ways with imitating if not disastrous results.
Cheers
Wlofie
Wolfie

[Plasticman]

Ah the saga developes
Firstly the oil pump in itself doesnt develope presure it flows oil, and by restricting its output flow pressure developes, in your case the restriction is the clearance in the big end and mains bearings also cam bearings and so on,the more wear(less restriction) the easier path the oil has so pressure reduces.
Pumps and engines are designed to flow more than required and have a releif valve to dump /bypass the excess, (for some app's we fit different relief v/v's dont need to go into that here and now, and so as wear increases the pump is still able to flow sufficient to overcome these losses and so still maintain a given pressure.
You say your relief v/v went in but didnt come back down when you stuck your grubby littles finger in there well maybe it wasnt seated correctly and so was partially open causing oil to bypass and hence give a low pressure as seen by your light.
conversly you dont want a relief v/v to be stuck fully closed as this will allow an oil system to seriously overpressure in the event of a blockage or other and whilst I dont have experience of it in vw lumps I have had it cause damage in large v8's ie 6ltr+.

So I would want to make sure the relief v/v is free to travell and has no burrs or signs of distress then I would top the oil up aand fit a wet gauge ie; capillary so I knew exactly what the pressure was/is.
mike

[fix]

Thanks for the reply Mike,

My fingers were clean!

So should the valve piston pretty much drop out if the spring isn't behind it? I think it pushed all the way up and I could spin it round with my finger but it wouldn't come back out.

I think im going to get the valve out tomorrow and put in the one from my old engine to see if it seats better, and if the oil light goes out. I will get the oil pressure checked aswell but i doubt I will be able to do that tomorrow with it being Sunday.


So if the valve was stuck open the engine would have low oil pressure, which could/would have caused damage? The engine barely ever idled I pretty much always fast idled it, but obviously with it being rebuilt it was driven at fairly low revs.

[fix]

I replaced the piston with the one from my old engine this morning.

Went for a drive and to start with the light went out, then it started to flicker abit and came back on. Now it seems to come on always at idle and seems to be harder to go off but flashes differently than before, not as regular less constant like pressure is coming and going.

Then I got the buzzer of doom, which didnt come on using the old valve piston.

[toomanytoys]

Personally pump, relief valve etc are all red herrings.. it does sound as though the low oil level has "wiped" the mains.. assuming that the oil pressure switch is of good quality and working correctly.. has a hot oil pressure check been done??

Low oil level will not bring on the oil light generally.. as there is just enough oil to create enough pressure.. what happens is air is sucked in, then some oil.. this will still give "pressure" but less/no lubrication thats when the oil film deteriates and the bearing takes the bashing...

Kepp driving it i vain hope that it will be ok, WILL result in a rod deciding that it doesnt like the dark and it WILL come out of the case.....

If a hot oil pressure test says the pressures low, then its got to come apart.....

[fix]

The different piston is definately making the oil light act abit different, though i do understand what you are saying about the pressure. It would be good to know if the problem is from 100 miles driving with low oil pressure because of the valve, or the low oil. Im assuming that could/would make a difference to what will be damaged?

The blue oil switch was just from the local auto spares as I needed one quickly to get on the road didnt want to wait for one from brickwerks etc, wasnt Febi etc. It would be really nice if it was crap and was giving a false reading, I will keep my fingers crossed!

I will only drive it to a local garage who can test the oil pressure, no hot oil pressure test has been done as the problem only came up yesterday.

So assuming the oil pressure is low, what sort of damage am I likely to be looking at, just mains? crank journals? big ends?

If its just the bearings I can live with replacing them, much further than that and its going to cost a fortune (again!) Having to buy another gasket set is expensive enough by itself.

[Plasticman]

This is like wondering whats on the otherside of a closed door! doing everthing except opening it to look, hot wet pressure test=instant answer, this will then enable you to proceed with known facts.relief v/v's also have springs that do weaken etc etc, anyhow all will be revealed soon enough

As for your penultimate para' I dont know the length of the piece of string, sorry

mike

[fix]

Lol basically hope for the and wait to see what a pressure test says!

I will update tomorrow, thanks for the help

[toomanytoys]

low oil pressure is low oil pressure.. tha same bits get damaged regardless...

[fix]

Fair enough, but are we liikely to be talking all the bearings, crank, big end, camshaft?

I will take the van to a local garage in the morning and see if I can borrow their tester and do it outside the garage.

I take it will a standard compression tester do the job aslong as it screws in and can read psi accurately? I have a tester with a rubber end but it reads in bar at 1 intervals which is useless.

Also you say a hot pressure test, does the van need to be upto normal operating temperature eg towards half way on the guage?

Ta

[toomanytoys]

A compression tester is next to useless for oil pressure test... need to screw into the low pressure switch (between pushrod tubes) or the buzzer of doom switch (next to water pump) yes engine needs to be at temperature really.. can sit it there "cool" and run it up till it gets hotter.. pref not at idle with a few rpm on it as then the oil will be circulating and creating a bit more pressure

As to damage... depends... if its only "wiped" the bearings, then the crank may be ok, with a light polish...

The only way to tell is to take apart... if anything looks like its worn, you ought to change it... unless you like playing russian roulette...

[fix]

Thanks for the info,

So what sort of pressure should I be getting from the low and buzzer of doom switches? I know what they go off at, but not sure how much higher pressure should be at.

So the testing pressure should be at fast idle ish then?


I agree the only way to tell damage is to strip it, which if the pressure is low thats what I will be doing.

[Aidan]

I have a pressure guage here that will fit the wbx - not easy to find because most of the universal fit ones use snap on adapters and there's no room to unsnap the fitting once you've mated to the adapter which you've screwed into the block - you can borrow it for the cost of post office special delivery and a beer