Leisure battery confusion

[phil19gti]

After having a good read of people's posts on various forums, I think I might have identified the problem with my battery.

Am I right in thinking the + cable should run from the starter battery to the relay and then to the leisure battery? If this is right, that's what mine does.

But for some reason, my - cable also does this, ie. the cable runs from the starter battery to the relay and then to the leisure battery.

So both cables run to the leisure battery.

The - cable shouldn't do this should it?

[andisnewsyncro]

Bit bored because it's raining so I googled your yellow charger thingy... As far as I can tell its a charger for a solar pane powered system
http://marinestore.co.uk/CU36207.html which may explain some of your problem. I can't see any evidence of a split charge relay in your pics.

Looks like they've used whatever was lying around and that you have to manually connect the "charger" before you start the engine and then remember to unplug it again once you switch off. Bit of an a**e really. A relay will do this automatically for you from sensing the feed from the alternator, or you can get an "intelligent" relay which doesn't need splicing to the alternator - dash light feed.

Get the proper kit as described before and start again, won't take you too long

[BOXY]

Hi, it looks a real DIY set-up. Just to confuse matters further is it possible the ICP unit was used previously to charge the batteries using a solar panel? If you Google ICP that seems to be what that unit could be, and it would explain the two loose spade connectors?

If you can't get an auto-electrician to take a look before you go to Glastonbury you could "wing-it" by:-
1) Charging up both batteries before you leave.
2) Disconnect the main battery when you arrive to make sure it doesn't run down.
3) Use the leisure battery for the sink & cigarette lighter, (interior lights?). (not the the fridge as it will probably flatten the battery in a few hours).
4) Take a torch

[phil19gti]

Bit bored because it's raining so I googled your yellow charger thingy... As far as I can tell its a charger for a solar pane powered system
http://marinestore.co.uk/CU36207.html which may explain some of your problem. I can't see any evidence of a split charge relay in your pics.

Looks like they've used whatever was lying around and that you have to manually connect the "charger" before you start the engine and then remember to unplug it again once you switch off. Bit of an a**e really. A relay will do this automatically for you from sensing the feed from the alternator, or you can get an "intelligent" relay which doesn't need splicing to the alternator - dash light feed.

Get the proper kit as described before and start again, won't take you too long

That's pretty much spot on from what the seller told us. You disconnect the spades when you're not driving the van. That's why I was confused as to me as soon as the leisure battery would drain, it would then take the power from the starter battery - I think? But if the spades are connected when not driving, it's gaining it's charge from the starter battery.

If I bought a relay, it seems easy enough to wire the + cable in which is already in place, but the - from the leisure battery would need screwing to the van floor for an earth and then a wire attaching to the alternator wire - is this the best way? Or how does the intelligent relay work?

[phil19gti]

Hi, it looks a real DIY set-up. Just to confuse matters further is it possible the ICP unit was used previously to charge the batteries using a solar panel? If you Google ICP that seems to be what that unit could be, and it would explain the two loose spade connectors?

If you can't get an auto-electrician to take a look before you go to Glastonbury you could "wing-it" by:-
1) Charging up both batteries before you leave.
2) Disconnect the main battery when you arrive to make sure it doesn't run down.
3) Use the leisure battery for the sink & cigarette lighter, (interior lights?). (not the the fridge as it will probably flatten the battery in a few hours).
4) Take a torch

I tried a similar thing to this the other night, but if I disconnect the starter battery, there didn't seem to be any power from the leisure battery, which to me didn't make sense. None of the interior lights worked with the starter battery disconnected.

[nedkelly113]

Hi
There are a couple of wiring diagrams in the wiki pages that might help you out.
You should have four connections on your relay you've bought. 2 are for the coil, a trigger from the alternator(blue cable) and one to earth(chasis). The remaining 2, one goes to the starter battery and one to the liesure battery (both these cables should be fused close to the battery, 30amp). The idea is that when the engine starts a voltage is passed from the alternator to energise the relay coil (trigger and earth) which then closes the contact between the starter and liesure batteries and the liesure battery is then chargeed at the same time as the starter battery.
Hop thats of some help
Ned

[R0B]

the interior lights run off the starter battery.unless someone has rewired them to the leisure battery..

None of the interior lights worked with the starter battery disconnected

[andisnewsyncro]

the interior lights run off the starter battery.unless someone has rewired them to the leisure battery..

None of the interior lights worked with the starter battery disconnected

Worth swapping over whilst you're doing stuff, not hard to do

[phil19gti]

I've just had a look at the starter battery and something doesn't seem right. To the + terminal I've got the big black thick wire and also a smaller red wire. If both are connected, the van starts and all electrics work, but if I disconnect the smaller red wire, nothing works. Is this red wire the one that runs to the starter?

Can anyone help please?

[Mocki]

just a point here......
the fridge should not be running from the leisure battery, it should be running from the main battery via a relay , switched from the alternator signal.

[boatdog]

hi phil just reading your post, with out seeing your set up its a bit of a guess but im thinking that someone came up with your set up by just adding to the standard set up and sounds like they connected your liesure battery to the starter through the relay with the idea that whilst your engine is running the starter battery is getting a charge from alternator, im guessing the relay is switched by the smaller wires going to either the ignition wiring or alternator wiring so with engine running it pulls in the relay (yellow box) and as the batteries are then "connected" both charges off the engine. with engine not running the starter battery is dis-connected by the relay not being energised. to test it check the voltage in both batteries with engine off, then start up and check again with engine running im guessing the voltage would be the same. if you get stuck give me a shout im only in urmston and could have a look for you.

[phil19gti]

hi phil just reading your post, with out seeing your set up its a bit of a guess but im thinking that someone came up with your set up by just adding to the standard set up and sounds like they connected your liesure battery to the starter through the relay with the idea that whilst your engine is running the starter battery is getting a charge from alternator, im guessing the relay is switched by the smaller wires going to either the ignition wiring or alternator wiring so with engine running it pulls in the relay (yellow box) and as the batteries are then "connected" both charges off the engine. with engine not running the starter battery is dis-connected by the relay not being energised. to test it check the voltage in both batteries with engine off, then start up and check again with engine running im guessing the voltage would be the same. if you get stuck give me a shout im only in urmston and could have a look for you.

Thanks for the reply. I've bought one of the intelligent kits and fitted that now and it seems to have worked. From the leisure battery I've got the water pump, cigarette lighter and fridge, although we won't be using the fridge this way.

Ideally I'd like to look into re-wiring the lights to the leisure battery but I'm not sure where these wires usually go to. Any tips?

[Red Westie]

The yellow box is an 'overcharge' control relay for SOLAR panels. Basically this relay was designed to sense full battery condition and turn off charging from a solar panel to preven battery overcharging.

see:
http://www.4lots.com/browseproducts/ICP ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What you really need is a proper 'leisure circuit' installing, that only connects the two batteries when the engine is running and charging.
Cabling a relay and fuse to handle a minimum 40amps (50 plus recommended)
These circuits can be pretty easily installed nowadays without the need to run feeds from the alternators indicator wiring. Now we have intelligent relays that switch when they sense charging rather than having to bother with the 'switch wiring' makes things are pretty easy.

As an observation, this wiring perhaps looks alot worse than it actually is....everything appears properly fused, they have used correct terminal ends etc it's just that instead of running one feed to a multi fuse holder they have wired everything up seperately which looks busy.

Martin