Indicator Lights not working

[noggintom]

Hi - my first post! Love the group as it has helped me do soooo many things already

Here goes with my first problem... I have a LHD JX Caravelle Coach (I am a brit in Norway!).

I have been replacing the heater fan under the dash (thanks Simon from Brickwerks for getting it to me from snowy England at Christmas). All went well (followed the wicki - takes bloody ages...). When I put the dash back together and check everything I find that the indicators do not work and the green light in the dash stays on all the time. Also, the battery is draining pretty fast (Fortunately, I had a spare and a charger!). Any ideas?? It did not do this before I took the dash and steering column apart to get to the fan..

The Hazard lights work fine (all four indicators lights flash) and the green dash light flashes when they are on. So no problem with the bulbs/relay there.

I have not checked the fuse (assume okay) or the earth crowns behind the fuse box / a-pillar. As I said all of this seems to have been caused during the fan changing job.

Only other thing I have done is change the light in the PCB for the flashed headlights as the old one was not working (blue light). Bought the light bulb from VW Norway (very expensive ). This still doesn't work so must be some other problem there...Oh, and the analogue clock does not work but never has since I bought the van 1 year ago.

Any help appreciated!

(also, does the fan work on speed setting 1? My new one just powers up on settings 2 and 3??? I think the old one may have done the same but not sure...). I stop asking questions now......

Frustrated! Have achieved so much over the weekend before this problem!!

Tom.

[noggintom]

Hi - my first post! Love the group as it has helped me do soooo many things already

Here goes with my first problem... I have a LHD JX Caravelle Coach (I am a brit in Norway!).

I have been replacing the heater fan under the dash (thanks Simon from Brickwerks for getting it to me from snowy England at Christmas). All went well (followed the wicki - takes bloody ages...). When I put the dash back together and check everything I find that the indicators do not work and the green light in the dash stays on all the time. Also, the battery is draining pretty fast (Fortunately, I had a spare and a charger!). Any ideas?? It did not do this before I took the dash and steering column apart to get to the fan..

The Hazard lights work fine (all four indicators lights flash) and the green dash light flashes when they are on. So no problem with the bulbs/relay there.

I have not checked the fuse (assume okay) or the earth crowns behind the fuse box / a-pillar. As I said all of this seems to have been caused during the fan changing job.

Only other thing I have done is change the light in the PCB for the flashed headlights as the old one was not working (blue light). Bought the light bulb from VW Norway (very expensive ). This still doesn't work so must be some other problem there...Oh, and the analogue clock does not work but never has since I bought the van 1 year ago.

Any help appreciated!

(also, does the fan work on speed setting 1? My new one just powers up on settings 2 and 3??? I think the old one may have done the same but not sure...). I stop asking questions now......

Frustrated! Have achieved so much over the weekend before this problem!!

Tom.

I have been investigating my problems further....

I have checked the fuses and all okay. I have removed fuses to see if I can isolate the circuit causing the problem. The constant green light goes away if I remove the flasher unit/relay - no.21 in position 12 (VW part no 191 953 227A). Obviously the flashers don't work with this out! However, the indicators do not work either (I assume they are part connected to this circuit). How do I check if the relay is knackered? Should I just buy a new one?

As the problem started after I removed the dash I have been investigating the "bodge electrics" installed by previous owners as this could have something to do with it (?). I have an earth connection behind the lower middle dash trim panel (in front of the gear lever) screwed into the floor. This is connected to some wiring that I think a previous owner has added. Is this a standard earth point? It is connected to a bodge connector which was connected to a bodge switch that doesn't do anything anymore.....

Finally, as LHD earth crown behind fuse box is difficult to get to with dash back on. Looks okay but some connectors are a bit grey and look like a good clean would do no harm. Should I do this?? (dash off again.... ).

Thanks! Anyhelp/comments appreciated, even "I have not idea" comments so I know I am not alone..

[1664]

I had indicator and dash light problems in my old camper - turned out to be the flexible circuit membrane connections were corroded where the membrane plugs into the plastic connection block behind the instrument panel.
Other than that I can't help - sorry. Doesn't help that a previous owner was a DIY wiring fanatic either. Get yourself a cheap little milti-meter as this will help you trace wires and confirm their continuity

[AngeloEvs]

The green LED is trying to source the flasher relay thats why it is on, there are two fuses for the flasher relay but check this post for more info. Allso check condition of the connection terminals in the relay socket

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61602

If the hazards are working then you also need to check the indicator stalk.

[noggintom]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the help, so glad to be a member of the club!

I had already discovered the other post with the similar problems when searching the forum. I seem to have the same problem except I don't get the "geiger clicking" from the relay that is described in that post (except when the hazards are switched on which it what I assume it is supposed to do..).

I think I have power to the indicator stalks by the steering wheel as when I move the stick left or right the dull green light gets lighter (but doesn't flash). I have bought myself a meter and a long length of cabling (battery in the back on diesel). I'll start to test the items you both suggest and post back what I find.

I am also coming at the problem from the other end by removing the previous dodgy wiring and getting the wires back to what they should be (I have removed almost 3 metres of "surplus" wiring so far! I think it must have had a disco or something in the back before ).

Any ideas on whether the earth I found by the gear lever should be there or not? At the moment I have nothing connected to it. I cannot find any mention on the wiring diagram in JK's manual for the diesel (well I think not - I was tired when reading it last night!).

Thanks again.

Tom (from a snowy norway).

[AngeloEvs]

My guess is that you have disturbed a connection when replacing the fan, more than likely at the rear of the fuse box but the battery draining fast is a spanner in the works and the two problems may or not be related. I will check the wiring diagram to see if I can see a cuase but check the following anyway.

The Indicator LED is supplied from the dashboard 12V supply. If the other 12V supplies are missing (from the 8A and 15A Fuses) the LED glows as it is trying to power the coil, which it cannot do (as the current from the LED is about 0.02A) but lights up anyway. There have been issues with the fuse holder blades so check these as well as the hazard light rocker switch, the two 12V fused supply for the indicator relay have to go through this first. If the LED is lit and the hazards are working then it sounds very much like the 8A 12V supply is lost. The symptoms are exactly as you are experiencing.......LED lit, Hazards work but no normal flasher.

[noggintom]

Hi, thanks once again Angelo,

I suspect the same as you... I did unscrew the fuse box and lift it off the hooks yesterday and shine a torch up underneath. I could not see anything obviously missing and checked that the connections in the area behind the relay and hazard and indicator fuses were plugged in and well connected. I did not want to pull the box out too far for fear of disturbing something else! I will investigate the fuse connection again. I replaced both the fuses in turn with new ones and that did not solve the problem so I guess the problem is at the back of the fuse box or at the indicator rocker (I am learning a lot about the electrics of my van this week ).

I think I have "solved" the battery drain problem for now. I have removed the radio which was on a permanent live before (worked without keys in). I also noticed the fuse for this had blown since I was in there at the weekend (?) which I replaced (was 10A, number 3, replaced with 15A as per brickyard info). This is the area with all the bodge wiring that I am investigating. Without the radio the battery drain seems under control. I attached a meter and did not realise now much juice the starter motor takes when turning over. I had not used it over christmas so the battery may have been low anyhow before I recharged it.

I will investigate further tomorrow and post back.

[AngeloEvs]

o.k, just checked the most common wiring for flasher circuit, bear in mind some models are different.


Flasher Relay Module Earth is at location 10 behind the dash (not a clue where exactly).

You can check this is ok by removing the flasher relay, note which terminal is marked 31 and then check, using a meter, that the corresponding terminal in the fuse box is earthed by locating a good earth point such as the cluster earths next to it.

Connection 2/49 (0r just 49) of the relay module is the 12V supply. With the Hazard Flasher switch in the normally closed position you should read +12V (from the 8A fuse) with ignition on. With ignition off and Hazards 'ON' you should also read +12V (but now sourced from the 16A fuse).

All the best and hope your van is wired as most others are.

[noggintom]

Thanks again - I will check this tomorrow evening and report back! I recently downloaded the Bently Manual (as suggested on another thread ) - I think this has a picture with the various connector numbers in it to help me as well.

[noggintom]

Hi again,

Just spent an hour or two looking at the problem further....

Battery drain problem solved (bad radio wiring...have removed some more DIY wiring and repaired...).

Found good earth at bottom of steering column and cleaned nice and bright. With the hazard flasher unit in the normal closed position I read 12volts from the 10A fuse (8A on wiring diagram) with the ignition on. This also reads 12 volts with the hazard flasher unit on - is this correct? With ignition off and hazards on I read 12volts from the 15 amp fuse (16A on the wiring diagram). Again, I also read this with the hazards off, I assume this is correct as power to hazards needed all the time.

This seems to be okay according to Angelo's post (correct me if I am wrong).

The green light is still on (argh). As before the green light goes out when I remove the flasher relay.

Next, I gentle eased out the fuse box having noted the 2/49, 49 and 31 positions on the relay. I connect to earth again and I think I am getting 12V off all three...a bit hard lying upside down trying to see and hold the meter cables in the correct place etc! Hard also to work out what the relay is connected to. I also read 12Volts from other metal connectors on the back of the fuse box nearby that are not connected to anything. I assume the whole fuse box is live with the ignition on??

Green light still on (double argh).

The only obvious loose cables I can find near the fuse box have yellow VW connectors at the end, there are two, one male and one female, but each has different coloured cables going into them. I did not connect together, are these the test points for the VW test kit? One appears to be a duplicate of something attached to the relay for the hazards (same colour cable, black and yellow if I remember correctly).

I'm stumped. What next... Clean the earth crowns - I think I can move the fuse box enough to get to them and some look like they need it.

The van has a lot of bodged wiring around the radio area with some back to the fuse box - none of the loose ends read anything on the meter - I assume this is not the problem.

Help!

[AngeloEvs]

you should not read 12v on terminal 31. This is the earth for the flasher module. Check this again.

Do the hazards work? I ask because if they do the it sounds like the relay module is fine but the 12V supply isn't getting to the indicator stalk.

Did you remove the dash and disconnect the hazard/light switches, etc? If so check that the hazard switch terminal 49a also has 12V. This terminal on the rear of the switch feeds the indicator stalk (terminal 49a

[noggintom]

Hi Angelo - thanks for sticking with us!

To answer your questions ..

Yes the hazard lights work (all flashing orange with green dash light flashing). Both with ignition on or off.

When we removed the dash we did disconnect the power connections to the indictor stalks and remove the steering column. We also removed the dash instruments pod and the connections to the hazards switch when removing the dashboard.

Now, with it back together: with the ignition on (and green dash light on when it shouldn't be) if I indicate left or right the light gets brighter (but does not flash) - I assume therefore it is getting power. I will check the connection 49a to be sure.

I assume when testing the connections (31, 49a etc.) I am looking at the metal connectors on the back of the fuse box behind the relay (I am new to this!). There are also some big connector blocks in this area (blue with 10 plus cables), these are for the fuses I guess? The 12V for the relay connector testing is with the ignition on I assume?

I will get a friend to help and update.

Many thanks once again!

[AngeloEvs]

If the hazards are working then the relay would appear to be ok. I insert male spade connectors into the vacant sockets rather than try and test the fusebox from the rear. If you get a reading that isn't correct then investigate the rear.

The relay gets its voltage from the Hazard switch which has two feeds, one from the ignition side and the other from the non ignition side. (Terminals 15 and 30 on the rear of the hazard switch)

The position of the switch determines which of these voltages are then fed to the flasher relay (and the switch must be fully functioning). When set to Hazards the coil gets the voltage from the non-ignition side, this why it is important that you read 12v on terminal 49 with ignition off and hazards on and 12v with ignition on and hazards off.

49a is the feed from the flasher relay to the indicator stalk so you could try removing the flasher relay and inserting a link across 49 and 49a. Switch ignition on and set the indicator left or right and see if the indicator bulbs come on (they won't flash though!) Using male spade connectors and inserting them into the relay sockets makes thing a lot easier for linking across.

iF you definitely have the 12V on 49 (with ignition on) and, having inserted a link across to 49a, still have no Indicator bulbs illuminating then it sounds like the voltage isn't getting to the indicator stalk or the indicaor stalk is not feeding the voltages Left and Right.

[noggintom]

Thanks again,

I was reading the wiring diagram last night (until I fell asleep ) and now have a much better understanding of what is going on. I will check as you suggest - I didn't think to buy blade connectors for the meter when I got it along with me krock-clips and long cables to get to the battery! Was rather frustrated I couldn't get the pen type connectors into the relay slots! Another trip to the Norwegian equivalent of Maplins required...

I also removed another couple of lengths of bodge cabling - I cannot believe what craziness amateur stereo fitters do in their quest for the holy grail of the permanent live....extra blue wire into red wire into god knows what stuffed wherever their nasty little hands can reach......Much easier when the cables are the correct colour and you can follow the wiring diagram....

It is sounding like the problem is in the cabling at the back of the switch, this makes some sense as we were really careful with the wiring looms and fuse box when we removed the dash - perhaps less so with the indicator switch...

Will update when I have the correct tool for the job!

[AngeloEvs]

you don't need to go to Maplins, just buy a few male spade connectors and push them into the any of the relay sockets as shown in the Wiki thread below......you can use crock clips to create links and normal meter leads to check whats happening behind the fuse box


https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Co ... alfunction