Starting problem....ongoing

[glenn77]

Right i need to get to the bottom of my starting problems now and any help would be much appreciated. 1984 automatic petrol 1.9.
The van used to start great until about 8 months ago when the starter started turning slower and slower. Suspected the battery was going so put a new one on several months ago - problem still there!!
Renewed the alternator bushes to make sure the battery was being charged - problem still there.
Checked all the earths and cleaned them - problem still there.
Battery fully charged overnight - starter still turns slowly until battery is drained.
Starts better with the aid of a power pack linked to the terminals to provide a boost if the battery is draining. Negative earth from battery to chassis was getting hot too.
Can i add that this slow turning over problem exists when it is a cold start 1st thing or if the van has been left for a long time, if it has been run for a bit the battery spins the starter fine and fast enough to start as it should
Last night starter stopped turning - took starter out today - and is sat on the bench now, so...
1. Which wires can i connect to the starter from a spare battery to check it is turning over out of the van and on the bench?
2. The spindle with the gear at the end of the starter turns both ways whereas a spare starter i have the spindle only turns one way - which is right?
3. I am going to replace the bush in the bellhousing is there a part number or reference for this and arethe bushes for automatics the same as manuals?
4. How do you get to the bush ...??

Thanks in advance...

[albertramsbottom]

Exactly my problems at the moment, apart from mine wont even start

So keep an eye on my thread as well and hopefully we will get an answer

Albetr

[glenn77]

i have just figured out how to get the starter to 'throw out' the gear at the end of the spindle - doesnt spin though - any other help still appreciated...

[kevtherev]

i have just figured out how to get the starter to 'throw out' the gear at the end of the spindle - doesnt spin though - any other help still appreciated...

Can you afford an exchange unit?

A Brass bush sits in the bell housing it supports the shaft.
It can wear or seize the shaft.

There's a braided power cable from the solenoid to the motor it corrodes if it is compromised in any way the unit must be replaced,

which I would be anyway

[glenn77]

thanks kev - i have another starter motor which i have just cleaned up and am going to fit that one and see how it goes. i cant find any brass bush in the gearbox bell housing - i have a spare gearbox in the garage and it too has no brass bush in it - the gear on the end of the spindle seems to throw out about 1.5 cm then engages with the flywheel gear - does the automatic differ from the manual in respect of the starter motor bush does anyone know ??

[tonytech]

Bently doesnt seem to list any differences between an auto and manual starter.
But it shows removal of a starter motor bush for manual and not for auto.

I'm sure I've read about differences on here.

T

[kevtherev]

Ah Sorry didn't spot the Auto in the first post

yes the motors are very different... no doubt and no bush



yours?

[glenn77]

thanks guys - yep - after extensive checking i concluded there was no bush in my automatic - no problem to change it then...so i put my other starter motor on and re-attached my cleaned cables - result - the van did turn over - still quite slowly though. This does tell me that the starter motor isnt at fault though.
If the thick positive wire from the battery to the starter is old and maybe breaking down would this cause the slow cranking speed or could it be something else ? the negative earth at the battery was still getting hot after starting it too.
Is it feasible to run a couple of jump leads directly from the +ve on the battery to the starter to see if that makes any difference ???
I'm sure there is a drain on the battery though as it has a lot less power after being stood than if it has had a run then cranks normally - how do i go about finding what is draining the battery though...?

[andisnewsyncro]

Any cable breaking down will not do your starting circuit any favours. It may be worth replacing your earth straps all round too; good connections are essential and you say the the -ve lead is getting hot. Check all of the earthing as you seem to be loosing current somewhere imho

[R0B]

just been through summat similar with my van.first make up a test lamp.solder two lengths of wire to a 12v bulb.take off the earth strap from your battery.connect one wire to the negative on the battery.and one to earth.if the bulb lights up your battery is draining to earth.if the bulb does light up.pull your fuses one at a time until the bulb goes out.this will tell you which circuit is faulty.with mine it was/is the interior light circuit.

how do i go about finding what is draining the battery though

[glenn77]

hmmm - sounds a good way of checking to me - theres tomorrow sorted out then - as for the earth straps and connections - i took them all off and gave them a good clean -i will post on results after the checks - thanks again all

[R0B]

any update on this

[glenn77]

Hi all - well i cleaned and refitted all the connections and put the replacement starter on - result - well the van started ok - still turns over a bit too slowly so i am going to give the battery a charge overnight to see if it improves.
Results of the voltage drain test with the bulb setup - the bulb didnt light so i assumed i wasnt losing power from the battery overnight. Does anyone have any other ideas why the battery may be losing some power overnight ??

Thanks for all the help so far folks

[kevtherev]

Every time the van battery goes through a charge and discharge cycle, a small amount is lost from the plates. Because the ultimate life of a van battery depends on so many factors, it is impossible to stipulate a minimum/maximum life expectancy. This process of normal ageing through the charge and discharge cycle will eventually cause the van battery to lose capacity, and it will come to the point where the battery can no longer start the van. This is not a manufacturing fault.

A van battery only has a finite number of cycles (x) it can go through before it loses its capacity to perform. Vehicles with high usage such as taxi’s, minicabs, trucks, and buses will often subject the battery to its x number of cycles but over a much shorter time. As a result, batteries on these vehicles can display the above symptoms after 12-24 months.

If a van battery is subjected to deep discharging (i.e. over 40%) and then rapid charging, this process (as above) is accelerated. Additionally, if during the recharge the van battery is not adequately compensated for the discharge cycle, the battery will quickly exhibit loss of performance. Even after recharging the voltage will be low (under 12.4v) but the cells will generally give even readings.
so the older and more used it is the more useless it gets.. like me

[R0B]

well its not draining to earth.you could try this.charge your battery for 24hrs.test voltage.leave it stood for another 24 hrs.test voltage again.if there is a significant difference in the two readings.your battery is not holding its charge.and needs replacing...

the bulb didnt light