clutch pedal no pressure

[snowythebudgie]

Hi everyone,

Perhaps someone has some ideas of whats wrong with my 1986 1.6TD. I've just come back from a long trip of 3000km over christmas and everything was fine with the van. I parked it up outside and left it for a week. I just went today to start it up and it had absolutely no pressure on the clutch pedal. I'm a new T3 owner and I very much a novice but I thought perhaps there was a leak in the hydraulics somewhere. The road underneath was bone dry and I checked the fluid reservoir and it was a little low so I topped it up full with about 200ml fluid. The thing is it just stays on full and I try and pump the clutch pedal and it doesn't drop at all? Does that mean I need to open the bleed valve to get the fluid into the system? Why is there none in there in the first place if its dry underneith and it was fine while I drove it so far over christmas? Is there a chance the is some fluid frozen in the pipes somewhere? It has been freezing outisde all week?

sorry for the novice questions but perhaps someone can stear me in the right direction??

Cheers,
Snowy

[happy camper]

if there was fluid in your resevior prior to topping up then the system shouldn't requird bleeding as no air could have entered the system, my thoughts are that the master cylinders seals have perished in the cold and when the pedal is being pressed fluid is passing the seals, also worth checking is the link between the clutch pedal and the master cylinder.

Hope this helps ya

[snowythebudgie]

Cheers, but it was dark when I topped up the reservoir so I can be sure that it wasn't empty to be honest... In fact it may well have been empty!So would you suggest opening the bleed valve and pumping the clutch pedal and then seeing where the leak is coming from? How much fluid should the whole system take anyway? Also, where are the common places I should look for a leak? Thanks.

[happy camper]

if the system is loosing fluid then it'll almost certainly be the master cylinder that will be the culprit, if your unsure how to bleed the system then get it done proffesionally, if your gonna bleed it yourself you'll need a mate to help but thinking about it i'm sure its the master cylinder seals that have failed because even if there was air in the system you should be able to pump the pedal and get some pressure on the pedal cos if you cant get pressure then you cant bleed .

[snowythebudgie]

Thanks for the advice, I'll get someone to take a look at it then. Do you know how much roughly I'll be talking if I need new seals fitting? Or does that mean a whole new master cylinder?

[happy camper]

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Cant imagine it'll take more than an hour to fit and bleed at a garage, if you click the wiki tab at the top right of the screen then there may well be a " how to " that'll give you a better idea

[snowythebudgie]

Thanks. I'll buy one and try and get it to the garage to get it fitted, but is there an easy way that I can check myself to be sure its the master cylinder? I don't want to buy a new one to find its something else when I get it to the garage? I'll take a look at the wiki section as well....cheers.

[happy camper]

as i said earlier if you cant pump any pressure into the system then its not an air problem, i believe that the master cyl is under the resevior and you also need to check the linkfrom the pedal to the cylinder check under the floor mats and see if there's any evidence of a leak.

[snowythebudgie]

Cheers, will do, one last thing.... If I need to replace the master cylinder do you think I should get a new slave at the same time? I've read that they both tend to go together so if I'm doing one I should get them both replaced.

[happy camper]

Never heard that before but thats up to you


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[Red Westie]

Caution....as the clutch shares the brake fluid resevoir with the brakes you shouldn't assume the fluid loss is a clutch problem....Yes...check the clutch master and slave cylinders for leaks but also the brakes especially the rear wheel cylinders (wet backplates from the rear)

Martin

[snowythebudgie]

Ok, cheers pal. Thanks for all the advice.

[clartsonly]

dont buy anything until you have located the leak, it could be slave (most common) a pipe or the master cylinder. if it was the master cylinder then your brakes would not work either.

assuming a T25 1.6TD is the same setup as a 1.9 water cooled. fill it up and get under the van with some glasses on, and get someone to press the clutch until you see where it is squirting out.

[clartsonly]

also... clutch take off from the res. is above the brake take off so if the level is under the clutch take off your know that the pipe or slave has failed. the slave failed on mine then 2 months later the pipe did

[VWCamperfan]

When did you last check your brake/clutch fluid?
If it has been too low for a while then it is possible with the cold weather that the fluid has contracted slightly in the pipes and allowed air into your clutch master cylinder.
The clutch fluid supply comes from part way down the resorvoir. There is a take-off pipe that prevents your brakes from being affected if there is a fault on the clutch side that allows fluid to leak out. It's a bit like having a hole half way down a bucket... There is still enough in the bottom of the bucket to allow the brakes to still work because they are fed from the bottom of the bucket!
I would try bleeding the clutch system first. Make sure the resorvoir is topped right up (leave cap off for now) and release the bleed screw on the top of the slave sylinder. Fluid will start to come out because the slave cylinder is lower than the resorvoir and so the fluid has to flow to the lower point. Leave for a good few minutes and keep an aye on the resorvoir tank. When the tank is half full (or half empty!), top up again to top and allow to drain out until fluid reashes MAX mark on side. At his point, tighten the bleed screw and try the clutch pedal again. Hopefully it should be ok.
If you have a clutch master cylinder problem, you will usuallu get fluid loss in the drivers side footwell.
With slave cylinder problems, you will usually see a puddle under the van. Not going to see it in this weather though if parked outside!
Your clutch will also fail if the fluid has dropped due to brake system leakage. The fluid for the brakes, as I mentioned earlier, comes from the bottom of the resorvior and will take the fluid below the take-off pipe for the clutch, allowing the clutch no extra fluid if needed.
Check all brake areas first, master cylinder and slave cylinders on each wheel. You should be able to see damp patches or leakage on these if there is a problem.
A clutch problem will never affect the brakes but a brake problem can affect the clutch. Makes sense really!