Help my Bus won't start

[Damien]

The earth is a brown wire goes to screw in the block off to the right from dizzy.

[jason k]

maybe a cap full down the carbs trick may coax it to start?

[j4jon]

The earth is a brown wire goes to screw in the block off to the right from dizzy.

There is a fairly thick brown cable that is connected via a spade terminal next to the dizzy and vacuum unit, to the block?

[j4jon]

Spark should be white/blue idealy so could be stronger, clean rotor, cap, check leads, plug gaps/clean etc
ignition on, is there 12 volts coming through black wire from coil to chokes and fuel cut off valves?
ignition still on, if you unplug and plug back in the fuel cut off valves do they click as you do so?
Check the breather pipes are in good condition, 2 on each carb.

I'll try and find a good picture to label these things up for you

I have been out tonight and done some more testing. When the wires are disconnected from the fuel cut off's two click on the left carb and one on the right. The metal pipes that go between the two carbs seem ok. The rubber connection hoses don't seem that tight and are of the braided type, is this an issue should I replace them?

I think the battery needs charging again as I took some readings which where
Battery voltage
Ignition off 12.3v
Ignition on 12.14v

Ign on
Voltage at coil 11.59v
Voltage at fuel cutoff 11.13v
Voltage at choke 11.09v

Are the above a bit low?

How does the choke operate as it always seems that the butterfly is open ie verticle?

[Damien]

Should be closed when cold, they operate using a heating element and a bi metallic strip. When you turn ignition on the element starts to warm up with the heat the bi metallic strip moves opening the choke. Leave the ignition on for 30 seconds and see if the round housing of choke feels warm. Its quite common for them not to work properley though. Do a search and i think you should find out what you need to know about the chokes.

The breather/vacuum pipes are generally not well looked after so if they look a bit dated whip some new ones on as they can look ok from the outside but still be leaking.

Have you tried using some easy start or similar to see if its a fuel problem?

PS you do not need to press the throttle down to set chokes on these they are not like the ones fitted to beetles!

[dugwiththevwbug]

hi this van was known to me as a local friend of a friend owned it
it was defo a 1600 when it started out thus the gearbox has a cable operated clutch as the gearbox was not changed when the 2ltr was put in the clutch cable issue may be an ongoing prob I was personally interested in this van but knowing that the gearbox was going to have to be changed put me off a tad.
i expect the main problem with the spark is that the coil is still the 1600 rated one and you could do with a new blue coil this should give you a very bright spark.
even if the coil looks good it can be loosing loads i had a similar problem on a low mileage dry stored van which was a pig to start untill i finally worked out the coil was under performing.

If you check your vin number in the vin decoder on brickwerks you will find that your bus was a 1600 caravelle and thus has had the 'viking' stuff added later on in its life. As viking almost solely converted panel vans and yours has the factory windows thus making it a caravelle/mpv

good luck you will have a tidy solid bus once youve worked through the few probs

doug

[j4jon]

hi this van was known to me as a local friend of a friend owned it
it was defo a 1600 when it started out thus the gearbox has a cable operated clutch as the gearbox was not changed when the 2ltr was put in the clutch cable issue may be an ongoing prob I was personally interested in this van but knowing that the gearbox was going to have to be changed put me off a tad.
i expect the main problem with the spark is that the coil is still the 1600 rated one and you could do with a new blue coil this should give you a very bright spark.
even if the coil looks good it can be loosing loads i had a similar problem on a low mileage dry stored van which was a pig to start untill i finally worked out the coil was under performing.

If you check your vin number in the vin decoder on brickwerks you will find that your bus was a 1600 caravelle and thus has had the 'viking' stuff added later on in its life. As viking almost solely converted panel vans and yours has the factory windows thus making it a caravelle/mpv

good luck you will have a tidy solid bus once youve worked through the few probs

doug

Thanks for the info Doug

I put the VIN into brickwerks and it doesn't mention the engine size. The coil is an interesting idea although according to
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... lnmbrs.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the coil for the CT, CU and CV are all the same which from what I've found out one is a 1600 and the other two are 2000.

[j4jon]

OK so I've done some more playing.
So with a fully charged battery when the weather is slightly warmer out it will turn over reasonably quickly but still doesn't fire. I have tried some petrol down the carbs also easy start but it still won't start. It has coughed once or twice but nothing that made me think it was going to start. If it is cold outside then it turns over very slowly again (if at all) even with a fully charged battery. I even think that I may have had some smoke today from around the starter motor area / on top of the gearbox after I had been cranking it for a while, is this likely to be starter over heating or is there something else in that area that could smoke?

Does anybody have an idea on what else to check or try? Is it worth getting a new coil from GSF and see if that helps? What type engine is it, as GSF list them as type 1,2,3 or 4?

[Wolfsburg Willy]

Jonathan, at the risk of bringing the thread back to basics:

Well if an engine has fuel, air, spark and its all happening at the right time then it should be up and running

You said that the van started for a few seconds and ran badly, so;

Are the plugs wet when you take them out? If so you've got fuel into the cylinders. If not, why not?
You already have a spark, sizeable at the distributor cap you say. Is it arriving at the right time and are the plugs sparking? Have someone turn the van over in the dark whilst you watch to see if you've an HT short (you won't see it in daylight).
What are the compressions like?
Does the starter whizz the engine over with the plugs out?
Have you tried to start it with the air filter off?
Will the van start with a tow?

If all the basics normal then it has to be something wierd like valve timing or aliens (sorry, medication has just run out!)

[j4jon]

Spent an hour or so on the van this afternoon. Followed advice of going back to basics. Went back under the bus and thought I'd double check the power to the starter as it was very reluctant to turn over again. Power was fine so went to double check the earth and as I was lying there starring at the earth I found out that both ends where connected to the gearbox mount.... the wrong side of the rubber mount, doh. I don't know how that happened as it was like that when I got it so not too sure how it ran before?

Anyway connected a jump lead from the gearbox to the negative on the battery and it turned over much happier, although didn't start. Sprayed some Easy start in to the carbs turned the key and it coughed into life for a few seconds then stopped (I guessed it burnt off the easy start).

So now that I have found an earth problem how was it earthing before hand?

Secondly as it has been sat around for quite a while and doesn't have much petrol in it is it possible that it is know past it's best as should be replaced? I can see how to drain the tank and start with fresh fuel but how do I go about draining the carbs?


I want to say a big thanks for everybody's help and feel I made progress today and am one step closer to getting it running.

[Wolfsburg Willy]

Excellent result Jonathan! You wouldn't believe the things that I've found over the years that were 'acting' as engine earths; choke cables, exhausts etc.

The result with the Easy Start possibly points to fuel as the cause of your grief.... the engine fired up and ran OK when it has something combustible in it! Petrol can degrade over a period of time due to the evaporation of the volatile fractions, so if it has been standing for a long time then a fuel change wouldn't go amiss. I would also ensure that the carb/s are clean by running some carb cleaner through it/them after cleaning out the float chamber/s (How many carbs have you got? ) Is fuel getting to the carb/s? I'd pull the pipes off and have a look. If not then I'd look further upstream; blocked filter, knackered pump, collapsed hoses/tank pickup, tank breathers etc. Let us know how you get on!

Happy New Year!

[j4jon]

I have the standard twin carb setup. I think i'll go and drain the tank, fuel lines, float chambers and anything else I can find that has petrol in it. I get petrol as far as the carbs as I disconnected one of the pipes and got pulses of petrol when I cranked the engine over.

I'll clean it all up and report back.

Thanks again and hope everybody has a great New Year.

[j4jon]

I've now replaced the earth cable so that it goes from the gearbox to the chassis and it turns over far better now. If I pour some petrol into the carbs then it will start and run for a short period, however it won't start from cranking.

I have emptied the carbs and once reconnected the fuel pump fills them up no problem and I have also drained the tank and put in fresh fuel but it won't run. I'm guessing the problem is now related to getting petrol into the cylinders from the carbs. With the ignition on if I disconnect the fuel cut off solenoids then I get a click so I'm guessing they are working. The question is where do I go now, what's the next thing I should be checking? I'm new to this carburettor malarky as everything I've had till now has had injection and engine management.

[VWCamperfan]

Crank the engine over while holding your hand over the top of the carb to make an airtight seal. This will cause a vaccuum in the carbs as you are cranking over and will clear out any schmuck from the fuel lines in the carb. It should also make the inside of the carb very wet with petrol if it is sucking fuel through.
When done, turn engine over again a few times normally and see what happens.

[j4jon]

As I don't have a helper at the moment (she broke her ankle) can I use some duct tape as long as it seals the top properly?