Electric P.A.S.

[lloyd]

And we still have no answer as to offical approval of any of the products ????????????????????????
thats right that encudes vwsub - ultimate eng and rjes i have said all i have and i will not be going around a roundabout if you want it buy it if not then keep stuggling with your steering good luck to you all
Trudi
VWSUB

Did Ultimate Engineering and RJES authorize you to include them in your above statement?

[Nicky]

I've just read this thread,............

A 'company' that cannot answer a straightforward question with a yes or no answer!!!!!

Boggles the mind.

Instead of getting very (off)defensive, just answer the question.

On the other hand, you're doing a wonderful PR job on yourselves!! Wonderful customer service to expect too!

[vwsub]

The product has been tested but as far as govement tested no but all this information is on the website most t25 have been modified even down to steering wheels and brakes and wheels and are they government tested, no so come on people have there own minds and i have made this very clear to you all i will not comment any further on this matter .
Many thanks
Barry
VWSUB

[Cruz]

then keep stuggling with your steering

I've got 7.5j wheels on and I haven't noticed any difference. Steering still as light as a feather and I parallel park every day

[syncrosimon]

I for one am glad that there are people out there willing to spend their time and money on making interesting things for our ageing dubs. We all have our opinions, and the ability to make our own minds up about things. No need to enter into a sad slagging match. People are naturally going to be defensive when others tell them they are "pooh". If you don't like something you don't buy it.

[eatcustard]

I for one am glad that there are people out there willing to spend their time and money on making interesting things for our ageing dubs. We all have our opinions, and the ability to make our own minds up about things. No need to enter into a sad slagging match. People are naturally going to be defensive when others tell them they are "pooh". If you don't like something you don't buy it.

You are right, but when we ask a simple question, we do expect a simple answer back.

Nobody is poohing the item, just asking is it type tested, as it is a major safety device in a front end collision.

E D I T my poor spelling

[steve8090]

Nobody is dissing the product Simon, in principal they all look terrific, as with wheels, they are made to a BS or international standard and weight rated, they have been tested, steering wheels are the same even aftermarket ones, all I was asking is any of these units had been tested to any standard recognisable by UK or International law/standard, VOSA or Minstry of Transport, if any of the developers had done this then that is the one that I would have personally plumbed for and recommended to my Customers.

Not only does this unit control the direction of a 2 ton killing machine, is it something you would like hitting you in the chest or sternum in the event of a front end or a component failing due to unforseen engineering problems and the vehicle slamming into a crowded shopping street (god forbid) all due to the lack of correct testing.

And as Barry says make an informed choice but on your own head be it (so far)

[lloyd]

What /\/\/\/\/\ above posts say .

[CycloneMike]

OK shall we consider this from the beginning? This is how I understand the rules. Its long winded and not intended as a criticism of anyone, I also have no allegiance to any supplier, but it might help put it all in perspective.

In the EU all road vehicles when new are required to conform to some form of type approval. This is to ensure a uniform standard of safety and other conformities. In mass produced vehicles all the tests are done for us by the manufacturer. If you build your own car or bring one in from outside the EU you have to submit it for SVA or now IVA (individual vehicle approval) to ensure it complies.
So are we allowed to modify them afterwards? Well in the UK within reason then generally yes, as long as they still comply with the Con & Use, Vehicle lighting regs, MOT etc. it will normally be OK. Unless the vehicle is radically altered it will not need to be submitted for further type approval testing.

Elsewhere in the EU I believe they are much stricter and modifications are prohibited completely. In Germany and Austria all modified parts must have TUV approval, which is an independent test that ensures the parts are of a quality standard equivalent to type approval. This is why it is often good to buy parts intended for the German market because they have been tested.
For steering type approval requirements, a T3/T25 van of this age falls under the EC directive 74/297/EEC. (you can read it here if you are bored http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 297:en:NOT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

But briefly the steering must meet the following criteria
When the unladen car without a dummy is collision-tested against a barrier at a speed of 48.3 km/h, the top of the steering column and its shaft shall not move backwards, horizontally and parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, by more than 12.7 cm in relation to a point of the vehicle not affected by the impact, the distance being determined by dynamic measurement
When the steering control is struck by a body block released against this control at a relative speed of at least 24.1 km/h ; the force exerted on the "chest" of the body block by the steering control shall not exceed 1 111 daN. 5.2.1. The steering control shall be so designed, constructed and fitted as not to comprise either any dangerous roughness or sharp edges likely to increase the danger or severity of injuries to the driver in the event of impact
The steering control shall be so designed, constructed and fitted as not to embody components or accessories, including the horn control and assembly accessories, capable of catching in the driver's clothing or jewellery in normal driving movements

So say for example you wanted to modify your steering but keep within the rules. A good place to start would perhaps be to keep it in line with the original type approval. If you keep the standard wheel and switches then the bottom 2 paragraphs aren’t a problem. The top paragraph is the one to consider because it relates to the collapsible element of the column.
Personally if I were to buy an after market column I wouldn’t expect a full destructive test of a vehicle to have been completed, because that is unrealistic. But I would expect some effort had been made to retain or improve on the original safety features and I would want to assess this for myself or have proof that someone else had. If you present a kit car for type approval they check the steering system by judgement and experience to assess if it meets the criteria. Usually the correct use of recognised OE parts such as collapsible boss and column will be sufficient.

So what if you don’t care about keeping to the original type approval? Leaving aside insurance and product liability issues, you might want to consider that if it doesn’t reach the standard that was required when the vehicle was new then could it breach the following?

Con + Use regulation 29
All steering gear fitted to a motor vehicle shall at all times while the vehicle is used on a road be maintained in good and efficient working order and be properly adjusted

S.40 Road Traffic Act - Using a vehicle in a dangerous condition
A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, causes or permits the use of a motor vehicle when the condition of the vehicle or its parts and accessories or equipment is such that the use of the motor vehicle involves a danger of injury to any person.

I am not against modifying vehicles, but it shouldn't be at the expense of safety. I have built/driven numerous kit cars and drive an modified old van. None of which in the event of collision are going to protect me in the same way as my wife’s horrible Scenic would, but all would offer more protection than any older van such as a Bay for example (and they haven’t been banned yet). But as many others here have mentioned safety is relative. I choose to drive them anyway accepting the risk, to gain the enjoyment. I would have no qualms about using the ‘right’ EPAS system, if it improved the ease of driving an old van without making it any more dangerous.

[mrsbatmangb]

I have just pulled a muscle in my arm parallel parking our van. No joke - pathetic I know! Is there a definite answer on which is the best system, as I am desperate for my boyfriend to fit it in our camper!

[eatcustard]

I have just pulled a muscle in my arm parallel parking our van. No joke - pathetic I know! Is there a definite answer on which is the best system, as I am desperate for my boyfriend to fit it in our camper!

Some T25s did come with PAS, you need one off one of these

[pionte]

I have read most of this with interest, I would like some sort of PAS to make the drive more pleaserable, I dont really NEED it as i am a big hairy arsed bloke, but would LIKE it.
I think i would be happier driving a van with one of these systems fitted than a van with aftermarket/ different manufacturer wheels that someone MADE to fit using an angle grinder in his garage..... I am a mechanic so understand the basics when it comes to most things, Im not sure that hitting something other than jelly at speed would be any less safe with electric PAS fitted, I modify my driving when I am in the van, very very defensive!These things arent very safe to crash in.
I reckon that if you banned everyone from wearing a seat belt, did away with air bags and crumple zones people would drive slower......

( The last bit was tongue in cheak so please dont ave a go at me )

[Ian and Lins]

I know this ones gone on a bit; but has anyone fitted a 'twiddly knob' type thingy to their steering wheel. Fork lift truck steering knob that costs a couple of quid and bolts straight on. Was thinking of getting one myself and then found out that pumping up the front tyres didn't half improve things.

[vwsub]

Over inflating the front tyres can be dangerous especially in the wet

[vwsub]

There will be a test drive video going on our website next week of our Hercules steering in action also if anyone would like to drive our test bus by appointment you are very welcome we are based in Kent.
http://www.vwsub.webeden.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many thanks

Barry
VWSUB