Stainless exhaust- post mortem fitting

[waltraud]

Dear all,

thanks Mike G and Toomanytoys and others for help with fitting ideas for my new exhaust. Thought it might be worth a post with tips for others. On my DG (VW new engine a few years ago) with early ancillaries I soaked all studs and nuts about 10 times over a week with plus gas then they all came out easily. I put all back together with plenty of copper grease and some of those plated slightly off centre locking manifold nuts. The Brickwerks system fits very well, looks great and sounds normal.

I have two questions left if you can......

Q1) Where should I direct the air pickup now, just take the flexi cardboard pipe off and leave air box as it is or disconnect the final bit of plastic air box with a vacuum valve on it (presumably to direct air to hot or cold??

2) Does the Brickwerks system need a 'support bracket' to be made up as per the original to support the cast knuckle joint...presumably otherwise there could be too much stress at this ponjt with the vibration and weight of it all....if so, how/where to strap it on??

Many thanks for your help and I would advise anyone getting a new exhaust section to go for the brickies one as it takes ages to do and will last for ever and if u had an ordinary one on and had to do it again in six years the studs would be f'''d by then as well.
as others have said Am thinking of fitting a stainless manifold set to me 1.9 DG which currently has the later exhaust set up. Am looking at fitting the turbo thomas which is an early style, J tube design for £185- just for the two manifolds but this can be bolted to a bluebird or similar silencer. Alternatively i was thinking of posibly the brickwerks late style maifolds set or just some cheapo new bits.

What experiences do you have, especially if with Turbo thomas? THANKS

Tim

[mike_gee32]

I've just gone through a similar process, but on an early van which limited my choices.

If I had the late style exhaust I would have put a Brickwerks system on, a big plus is that as it is all compatible with the standard system so if money is tight just replace the bits that are knackered, save for a bit then replace the rest. It won't be chav loud either.

I went for a VW speedshop system in the end as it was the cheapest option for an early engine and I didn't want to find and fit a late engine support with the silencer brackets, there is a tread in the modified section asking Q's about it. It's only been on for a couple of days and the van still isn't driveable so I havent used it on the road but first impressions are good. It's got a nice deep throaty sound and barks nicely when you open it up. It is loud but not anything like as bad as the chavs in their metros and saxos who insist on racing down our road all night, or the old system which I drove with two cracked J tubes for six months.

Fitting was pretty easy except that the fitting kit didn't have the bolt to secure the back box to the collector in and I paid the 6 quid extra for stainless manifold nuts, only to find when I took the old exhaust off that I only had 4 studs the others were bolts, worth checking before you start to strip it down.

[lloyd]

I've just gone through a similar process, but on an early van which limited my choices.

If I had the late style exhaust I would have put a Brickwerks system on, a big plus is that as it is all compatible with the standard system so if money is tight just replace the bits that are knackered, save for a bit then replace the rest. It won't be chav loud either.

Agree, go with Brickwerks system.

I went for a VW speedshop system... It's got a nice deep throaty sound and barks nicely when you open it up. It is loud but not anything like as bad as the chavs in their metros and saxos who insist on racing down our road all night

Nicky says if I drive by like a chav, it sounds just like them.

[waltraud]

Thanks guys. I agree about being able to replace bits with the Brickwerks one as and when possible or money allows. As with the turbo thomas it also does not have a pick up for hot air for the carb- not sure how much this would matter and it may be possible to adap or make up a pick upo point for this. I like the idea of the early stainless system by turnbo thomas simply because it seems more simple, less pipework and apparently less complicated. Is there a torque or efficiency advantage with the late pipework....suppose VW must have had good reasons to change the set up..... Was also thinking that if i ever changed to a scooby engine then it would be possible to use short stainless manifolds that use the earlier style silencer (like the bluebird customs fit.)
Tim
Hmmmmmmm

[mike_gee32]

I believe the later system does flow better, on the early one (and TT replacements) the header pipes are different lengths, and VW wouldn't have gone to the effort of designing the later system if there were no benefits. The VW speedshop one puts a loop of pipe off the rear headers so all four are the same length lots of people reckon they have felt an improvement in power after fitting it.

Don't worry about the hot air pick up, I've not run one for 7 years, 3 with the standard airbox and the last 4 on LPG with a K&N cone filter on. My van was used as a daily driver for 3 1/2 of those years and I never had a problem with cold starts or icing.

I wouldn't worry about adapting anything if you put a scooby engine in later you should get good money for your second hand stainless system whichever one it is then buy a proper RJES one for the conversion.

[waltraud]

Thanks Mike,

thats helpful, i'm thinking Brickies is the way to go, just scared of undoing the studs / bolts now. Looks like the upper manifold mounting at rear of engine / rear of van has bolts holding it on...is this correct.

[mike_gee32]

Mine had bolts on the n/s rear and o/s front, studs on the other 2. Due to the way the early cooling system is near the thermostat I had to keep bolts there but fitted stainless studs to the rest. Considering that they hadn't been touched for about 10 years I was pleased with how easily they came out. I used plusgas every day for a week or so on the bolts/studs with the engine hot and cold and 6 of the 8 undid nicely with a normal 13mm ring spanner. The 2 on the n/s front were a bit trickier as the nuts had eroded to nothing and there were no flats left at all. I cut the pipe off as close to the flange as I could with a metal blade in my jigsaw then used a chuck type stud extractor (from machine mart about £17) on the end of the studs and wound them out with whats left of the nuts still attached. Took about 40mins in all.

[toomanytoys]

Personally I dont think there is any advantage (power wise) in the late system... (I have 2 vehicles early and late) both systems are poor in design really.. the move to the later system was for noise and most likely as cat's were being fitted to a lot of them... VW never changed the power outputs for the DG engine from early to late and there was a camshaft change too...

Turbo Thomas ones are direct copies of the original early type (He copied a set I posted to him )

Both the early and late systems I have I have removed the pre heat ducts and never had a problem...

[waltraud]

You have all been a great help, think i am gettting nearer to having a go at it. Anyone know where to get stainless studs/bolts and that they are reasonably compatible with the block- i.e. anything to be aware of in using them..? thanks. Interesting to hear different views on how restrictive or not the early system was....i wonder if there are any VW figures or ex-vw engineers around. Sounds likely about cats being introduced but also economically i can't see why they wold have decided to use so much more steel in the design were there no other good reason for efficiency perhaps. T

[shepster]

I have the Turbo Thomas downtubes and a Bluebird Twin Tailpipe on my van, it was originally an early 1.9 but now a 2.1 and it flies (you can fit either system on either van).

I'm at VF if you want a look/listen.

[mike_gee32]

For stainless bolts/studs I went to a local hardware shop, I cut down M8x75 bolts and used the threaded section as the studs. I think I paid about a fiver for a big bag full, I've just swapped engines from my old van to my new one so replaced every nut and bolt I took off with stainless as i went along.

[silverbullet]

Word of warning!

I spent several hours on my back grinding off seized stainless exhaust manifold nuts before fitting a new rjes system to my EJ22 powered bus. They were on m/s studs (M10 x 1.25)

Stainless subjected to thermal cycling WILL seize.

Stainless on stainless does a nasty thing called galling - think cold welding and you've got the idea. It can happen just spinning on a nut if the fit is too good...

[waltraud]

Thanks SB , i have been contemplating replacing the original studs with ss ones but i guess u are saying this could also be a problem if nuts and studs cold weld so to speak? Anyone else have experience of which studs/nuts are best to fit when putting a SS system on a WBX (DG)- ta. Tim

[toomanytoys]

SS is ok, if the nuts are not too tight and you use plenmty of "copperslip" on them... the biggest problem with stainless bolts is they are not all that strong... add some heat, expansion and stress, they may well snap... I use high tensile steel bolts (8.8 marking on the head) and never had one snap.. plenty of copperslip and they last well...

[shepster]

I used stainless studs and copper nuts, i've had mine off a few times and never had any probs.