Syncro springs.

[Simon Baxter]

Think I may have found a source for brand new syncro springs from a OE supplier.
Just waiting to hear back, but from the others I have seen they have been bob on!
Just chanced upon them while looking for something else.
Fingers crossed eh.

[syncrosimon]

Yes please, just means doing the alignment twice though.

[Simon Baxter]

The rears are tapered wire too.
Anyway, I have mailled them, so lets just hope.

[syncropaddy]

See if you can get them an 1 1/2" longer so we dont have to use spacers

[toomanytoys]

Or 15-20% stiffer??? (or whatever is deemed a good increase... but not 50% like Seikels)

[Simon Baxter]

I had a brief e-mail from the rep, he was between flights, so it was very brief!
but, supply shouldn't be a problem and asked encouraging questions about having stuff made and asking if I wanted them in tapered wire or not, so, could be a wild goose chase yet and they may end up being silly money but we can do nowt but ask.
Do you think springs need to be firmer? Longer I can understand.

[v-lux]

I would have thought that VW would've worked out the correct spring rating for the vans based on the weight of the vehicle, while taking into account the unsprung weight also.

However..
Given that the weight of the actual vehicle (not including the unsprung parts) wont have changed a great deal, the thing that's prob worth thinking about is whether larger diameter and or heavier wheels might or might not benefit by a change of spring rate?

I imagine that the Damping is probably a key issue in the whole 'ride' aspect of the suspension set up also, so could changing the spring rating require a different damping set up to go with it?

[toomanytoys]

Its a difficult one... many variables involved...

If VW did such a good job, then why do we all jack them up and fit bigger wheels and tyres, engines and load them more

The standard springs when new prob work(ed) well.. but even my very late one is 17 years old.. has been worked hard and gets used well... the springs must be tired...

Quite a lot of the modified campers out there are grossing at a lot more weight than originally intended.. (no syncro is designed to gross above 2500kgs IIRC, next time your fully loaded camper goes out, stick it on the local weighbridge, inc passengers.. )

A longer spring (normally more coils rather than larger spacing) would prob help, but it still deflect under the same load as a standard spring.. this will eventually lead to coil bind under extreme loadings (I havent done the measurements, but lets assume this to be possible) a stiffer spring of standard length will deflect less, giving a taller static ride height, deal with higher loadings and prevent coil bind..

Damping is an issue... but rears are available easily that are adjustable (Mr B) Fronts... well I seem to remember that someone was getting them done too, the Monroe van magnums I have appear to have stiffer damping... A new set of standard shocks will have better damping than 17 year old ones too...

Does any of this make sense???

[Simon Baxter]

Annoying things with t3 Syncro is the fact that they used one spring for the front and one spring for the rear, for everything, be it a 14" panel van or a 16" Westy.
At least with 2WD there were a range of springs for different applications.

[Simon Baxter]

front coil overs are not a problem to make at all, but they would have to run a 2.25" spring, which are quite closely wound, then you run out of articulation, something you are trying to avoid on a syncro that has limited articulation to start with.
The adjustable front dampers I wanted weren't possible because they couldn't make a spring seat big enough to suit the VW spring. Pressings would be silly money and with all due respect the t3 syncro market is a fairly limited one in car terms, and probably not worth the investment hence OME using Monroe casings for their Jamex looking dampers.
AVO will quite happily make me the dampers, they have the spec already, they just can't get a spring to attach to it.

[toomanytoys]

So what we need then is some way of getting the/a spring seat made/sourced/modified to fit...

I have some thoughts...!!! PM on its way..

[toomanytoys]

Annoying things with t3 Syncro is the fact that they used one spring for the front and one spring for the rear, for everything, be it a 14" panel van or a 16" Westy.
At least with 2WD there were a range of springs for different applications.

Yeah... thats what I was trying to say too...
1 spring, didnt matter what went on it... yet several springs for 2wd... tiny market? Couldnt be arsed? Cost? who knows...
A stiffer spring has got to be an advantage to the heavy campers... hasnt it???

[v-lux]

I would have thought a stiffer spring would definitely benefit a generally heavier vehicle like a laden Westie.

I guess it wouldnt be a bad thing to be able tailor all the spring and damping rates a little more. I wonder if Diesels could do with something a bit more heavy duty on the rear given the extra weight of the engine?

Ive often thought that my van's damping leaves alot to be desired. Seems like it needs more rebound damping at the front to try and combat the wallowing and diving.

Pretty sure the back end could do with some refreshed damping also, something just doesnt feel quite like it should to me thinking about the fact that all Syncros have the same springs it makes perfect sense.

[Wolfsburg Willy]

A longer spring (normally more coils rather than larger spacing) would prob help, but it still deflect under the same load as a standard spring.. this will eventually lead to coil bind under extreme loadings (I havent done the measurements, but lets assume this to be possible) a stiffer spring of standard length will deflect less, giving a taller static ride height, deal with higher loadings and prevent coil bind..

I seem to remember something from many years ago about spring 'buckling', a function of spring length/spring diameter. Basically the longer the spring, the greater the tendency for lateral movement. This would be a limiting factor for increasing spring length to negate the need for spacers. Stiffer springs would assist with load carrying but the release of the stored energy on rebound would necessitate a change of dampers to avoid a 'choppy' ride. Is it possible to source a progressively wound spring (traditional coil spring that acts like an air spring). Whatever the choice it sounds like a serious raid on the piggy bank!

[toomanytoys]

TD syncros came with a spacer under the rear springs.. to compensate for the heavier engine.... so stiffer spring would help..

If you have damping issues.. how old are the shocks... its surprising how bad they can get... design life of a shock is apparently something like 30-50k miles....