A couple of rear brake questions

[irishkeet]

Hello

I took the rear wheels off today to spray and I thought i may as well have a look at the rear brakes while I was at it.
I read the excellent guides on the wiki which shed a lot of light on the subject.

Brakes were very dirty as per the photo


I had the shoes replaced in May 2006 and it looks like there is still a lot of wear in them, how much can they wear down before I think about replacing them?

Also i noticed on each side that the rubber gasket at one end of the cyliner is perishing and has a hole, do I need to worry about this?


Finally the rear brake plates look original and although not rusted through as yet the edges are pretty flimsy, are they easy to pick up second hand and should I be thinking about changing them yet?

Thanks
irishkeet

[Hypnovan]

Hello,

The brake pads can wear down to the little rivets which hold them onto the shoes - at which point they wreak havoc with the drums and it all gets very expensive. If anything, they'll need checking (another one of those checks I do every so often) and adjusting to ensure they continue to wear evenly - as long as everything else is working as it should. (GSF - 3126 - BRAKE SHOE SET-REAR - T25 5/79 > 11/90 - £22.75) If your rear pads don't wear evenly, they will be thicker at one end than the other and form a wedge shape. This is bad because it means the pads will wear down to the rivets at one end and not the other. Your's look okay to me.

The rubber cap - I recently had the whole thing (cylinders too) replaced on both sides because brake fluid had begin to leak and that's bad! It wasn't incredibly expensive and it can all be bought over the counter from a spares stockist. (GSF- VW T25 Watercooled - 65436 - WHEEL CYLINDER-REAR - T25 >90 - £13.50) I think this is what they used but check it out for yourself or just ask someone if you're not sure.

While you're down there, have a look at the rear brake hoses too (GSF - VW T25 Watercooled - 65875 - BRAKE HOSE-REAR - T25 5/79 > 11/90 - £8.00). They cost £16 to buy two and I wouldn't bother with the braided hoses unless you are intending turning your camper into a boy racer's Pimp Vagon.

If you haven't already, this may be a good opportunity to familiarise yourself with the entire braking system from end to end if you have the time and while the weather is in our favour, check your brake fluid, change your engine oil and filter and do a routine maintenance on yer lovely van. I am lead to believe that brake fluid must be changed regularly, so it's just one of those things which gets done. I use 15W40 Castrol and a Mann filter every 3,000 miles or roughly every 6 months and my garage gives me brake fluid, coolant and other minor stuff if I ever need it because he's that kinda guy.

That's my opinion anways. Keep it standard-ish and maintain it well.

Happy Spring,

HV

[irishkeet]

Thanks HV
should I be thinking about replacing the rear brake plates?

irishkeet

[T'Onion]

Can't get them new , so go steady with the ones you have , ask one of the breakers for a pair ? rumour has it someone modded a pair of bay ones to fit

[Red Westie]

Q I had the shoes replaced in May 2006 and it looks like there is still a lot of wear in them, how much can they wear down before I think about replacing them
A Wear limit is approximately 1-2 mm at the thinnest point on 'Bonded Shoes' like these or just before they hit the rivets on rivetted type (original VW) yours look about 40 - 50% worn so plenty of wear left.
Q I Also i noticed on each side that the rubber gasket at one end of the cyliner is perishing and has a hole, do I need to worry about this?
A These will definately need replacing otherwise the dust and moisture will quickly damage the cylinder pistons. To be honest new cylinders are cheap enough not to bother with messing about with dust covers.
Q Finally the rear brake plates look original and although not rusted through as yet the edges are pretty flimsy, are they easy to pick up second hand and should I be thinking about changing them yet?
A As long as the rear of the backplates are solid remove the loose rust around the perimeter and re-use.

Brake fluid needs changing every two years because it is hygroscopic and becomes contaminated with water over time. DOT4
Personally I would lever the shoes away from the backplate with a large flat screwdriver and with the aid of a feeler gauge blade (fairly rigid one) apply a small amound of copper slip grease to each of the backplate contact points (three for each shoe) including the lower pivet and top wheel cylinder piston contact point so the shoes move freely and don't squeek when the foot and hanbrake are applied (don't get any on the friction surface.
Martin

[matty o]

jk and brickwerks both do the back plates
I have just fitted 2 of the jk ones as both mine had turned to dust.

now for the hard bit
You will need a 46mm socket a good bar+6' scaffold bar and 17stone of muscle(fat) jumping up and down to undo the hub nut.


http://www.justkampers.com/shop/type_25 ... -left.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[irishkeet]

jk and brickwerks both do the back plates
I have just fitted 2 of the jk ones as both mine had turned to dust.

now for the hard bit
You will need a 46mm socket a good bar+6' scaffold bar and 17stone of muscle(fat) jumping up and down to undo the hub nut.


http://www.justkampers.com/shop/type_25 ... -left.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lol cheers mate & thanks for the answers red westie, good thinking about the copper slip grease

irishkeet

[Hypnovan]

If you like a bit of occasional constructive tinkering; if you do take the back plates off (I don't think you need to yet but if you ever do) maybe consider coating them with paint to protect them. Probably best to do this with new plates and i've never done it myself though I would if I ever replace the plates on my van. Don't know the trade names of the products to use but i'm sure it's been done by others.

While you have the wheels off, go any buy yourself a couple of tins of brushable underseal, some brushes and latex gloves/marigolds(yellow or blue) and do your wheel arches and anywhere else you can reach. I did mine last year and removed loads of dirt which had lodged itself in all sorts of nooks and crannys. One of the worst places I found was behind the filler pipe - in the corner behind the reservoir bottle. Loads of mud had been sitting there for ages (thrown up there by front wheels) and had trapped moisture which was rusting the area around the filler cap.

While I was at it, I replaced the rubber tube (fuel filler neck), which runs from the filler cap to the hard plastic fuel pipe with a new one from Brickwerks (about £10 and a 15 minute job). Doing this could well save you from having to deal with rust in the area. My van's going in for a Dinitrol spraying sometime soon too. The way I see it is that as we're keeping the van for a while and because we live by the sea, our van WILL rust. Spending money on fixing rust is not as wise as preventing the rust in the first place. Sure they all have some at some point but some of the horrors i've seen on other vans has been enough to convince me not to be penny wise and pound foolish. Undersealing is a very satisfying thing to do. Harry Mann has some stuff on Wiki about sound proofing too so check it out.

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All the best,

HV

[irishkeet]

many thanks for all the advice
have ordered the cylinders, springs etc from Simon @ Brickwerks
guess what Im doing this Saturday

[Hypnovan]

"guess what Im doing this Saturday"

errrmmm.... dodging the intermittent downpours while cursing the God of wheelhubs for causing you to sprain your ankle while jumping up and down on a scaffold pole which you were using to undo your hubnut because curiosity got the better of you and you didn't believe the weather forecast and got too involved in dismantling your rear brake assembly to be able to simply put it all back together without urgently requiring a spring and some copper grease? Just a guess. I'm usually right.

You'll be needing one of these:

http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/i-he ... /136381459" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All 80-90 members must be on parade at 0:900 hours zulu wearing full t25 regalia battle dress:

http://badscience2.spreadshirt.net/en/G ... at-8097922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/ ... ather.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking forward to reading of your exploits. Wiki could use some pics and words about 'how to' if it's not too complicated. Ask a mod (erator).

HV

[Red Westie]

Hypnovan....stop worrying the poor guy lol and I hope he isn't intending to jump up and down on a scafold tube because he doesn't need to just to remove rear drums! they come off without hub nut removal.

1) Carefully Use a pipe clamp on the centre of each flexi (whichever side you are working on) to block off fluid flow.
2) Wheel cylinders can be replaced without removing the shoes
3) As I said previously, all the backplate, pivot and wheel cylinder contact points need a small application of copperslip or similar
4) Be careful to get the return springs the correct way up, if fitted wrong they can interfere with the brake adjuster mechanism
5) Bleed each wheel cylinder until all bubbles are gone and fluid runs clean (make sure you don't allow the fluid in the resevoir to go below minimum)
Resevoir is situated under instrument cluster binnacle)
With drums refitted, slacken off the handbrake cable and adjust both rear adjusters until the drum binds solid (center top hole in the backplate, remove bung) the best tool for this is a medium flatblade screwderiver with a slight bend fashioned about 30mm from the blade end, then back off the adjuster until the drums run free plus a couple of clicks extra to allow for expansion clearance.
6) Once shoes have been adjusted, re-adjust hand brake cable so the handbrake lever has the correct movement
7) Road test

[irishkeet]

"guess what Im doing this Saturday"

errrmmm.... dodging the intermittent downpours while cursing the God of wheelhubs for causing you to sprain your ankle while jumping up and down on a scaffold pole which you were using to undo your hubnut because curiosity got the better of you and you didn't believe the weather forecast and got too involved in dismantling your rear brake assembly to be able to simply put it all back together without urgently requiring a spring and some copper grease? Just a guess. I'm usually right.

You'll be needing one of these:

http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/i-he ... /136381459" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All 80-90 members must be on parade at 0:900 hours zulu wearing full t25 regalia battle dress:

http://badscience2.spreadshirt.net/en/G ... at-8097922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/ ... ather.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking forward to reading of your exploits. Wiki could use some pics and words about 'how to' if it's not too complicated. Ask a mod (erator).

HV

Hypnovan

heard about the weather too so I may put it off until the following weekend, will get some pics if its dry
also I wouldnt want to ruin a nice flowery t shirt in the rain

all the best mate

[irishkeet]

Red Westie

thanks again for all the advice

irishkeet