Zig Unit - CF6 (now has loud hum)

[davidvincent]

Hi all

Hope the weekend serves you well. I am trying to find more out about the operation of my Zig CF6 as below:


I have read the manual, as found here http://www.freewebs.com/12voltsdc/Zig%2 ... %20PDF.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but it doesn't cover the operation of the first switch (left) - Reading various posts it seems this switch is what decides whether you are operating the 'living area' lights/accessories via the main crank battery and the leisure battery simultaneously or just via the leisure battery - Meaning you could accidentally run down the main battery if you don't choose wisely when stationary and not hooked up to an external source...

My issue is that my leisure battery has been run down to nothing and I have ordered a battery charger which wont arrive for a few days - If anyone can explain how to operate the switches on the zig so that when the leisure drains it does not kill the main battery I'd appreciate it. By reading the Zig manual, it claims to have a built in split charge relay system so I guess I don't need to install one? I was about to buy a rig of ebay but thought I'd check with you guys first..... there are no relays mounted anywhere between the two batteries so assume there never has been. I do however have a switch mounted under the dash with an led attached and an orange relay (i think) - to this day I cannot work out it's function? By trying to trace back the cables I would have a guess that it has something to do with the fridge, this has options for either gas, 12v or 240v operation. Here's how the switch/relay looks:


Any advice on that would be great too.

Then my last question, for today.... How do you test your external hook up is all tickety boo before hitting the road? I have the 240 round ended cable which will hook up on site plus an adapter which turns the plug into a standard UK plug. Do I need a separate 110 transformer (like you would use with power tools on a building site) to test the rig at home or can I plug the cable (with the UK plug adapter) straight into the mains in a standard home socket? I'm guessing not.

Sorry for the bombardment of questions!!!
Dave

[AngeloEvs]

Orange Switch - Switches the CF6 in built charger 'on' or 'off' when you are on electric hook up.

Car- Mains Switch. When set to 'car' (later renamed 'Touring') connects the leisure battery and all leisure electrics to the starter battery as well as the leisure battery so that the leisure battery can receive a charge from the alternator. However, in this position any 12V electrical appliances when used will take power from both batteries.

When set to 'mains', the leisure battery is disconnected from the starter battery and receives charge from the ZIG if it is switched 'on' and you are connected to electric hook up. In this position, the electrical appliances in the habitation area will draw current only from the leisure battery.

12v 'ON-OFF'. Switches the leisure battery feed to all appliances 'off' but the battery will still receive charge from the Zig if 'on'.

You don't need a 110V transformer (unless your van was imported from the USA!). Simply connect to your domestic 13A socket using the adaptor and check that the fridge works and that you have 13.4v across the leisure battery when the zig is switched on and set to 'mains'.

Hope that helps.

[davidvincent]

Thanks Angelo

That is helpful, another question then... what would happen if I plugged the van into the mains with the adaptor as you suggested but with no leisure battery attached? Would I still be able to run appliances?

Dave

2.0 1980 Petrol RHD

[AngeloEvs]

Yes, but leave the ZIG mains 'on-off' (the left one )switch to 'off'. The ZIG is there to provide charge to the Leisure battey and not to supply the leisure electrical system. It doesn't provide a smooth DC voltage like a battery would and you would notice lights,etc flickering and brighter than normal. It also also has thermal trip switch and voltage/current regulator that expects to see a battery installed. There would also be a possibilty of it simply cutting out so I wouldn't recommend having it switched on and using it without a leisure battery installed. To test everything without a leisure battery the safest option is to set the switch marked 12V to 'on' and the switch marked 'car-mains' to 'car' and use the starter battery to test the leisure electrics. The 12V fridge option will only work with the engine running and this is usually connected to the starter battery anyway. You will still be able to test the 240v fridge/gas option though with the switch set to 'car'.

[davidvincent]

Oh ok, I see.

Thanks Angelo, I'll give that a go in the morning. This spring/summer will be our first venture out in the camping world so I am desperately trying to tie up all the loose ends.... I have sorted all the mechanical bits myself but do struggle with the electrics, so thanks for your advice

I'll report back.

Dave

[davidvincent]

Yes, but leave the ZIG mains 'on-off' (the left one )switch to 'off'. The ZIG is there to provide charge to the Leisure battey and not to supply the leisure electrical system. It doesn't provide a smooth DC voltage like a battery would and you would notice lights,etc flickering and brighter than normal. It also also has thermal trip switch and voltage/current regulator that expects to see a battery installed. There would also be a possibilty of it simply cutting out so I wouldn't recommend having it switched on and using it without a leisure battery installed. To test everything without a leisure battery the safest option is to set the switch marked 12V to 'on' and the switch marked 'car-mains' to 'car' and use the starter battery to test the leisure electrics. The 12V fridge option will only work with the engine running and this is usually connected to the starter battery anyway. You will still be able to test the 240v fridge/gas option though with the switch set to 'car'.

Hi again

So I got a leisure battery in and everything seems to work off the 12 volt (although the leisure battery needs a proper charge) - So I hooked up the external power cable and flicked the zig on to 'mains' and the charger on. It all then still looked good, the lights etc are all working but then I heard a humming sound coming from the Zig... it was getting louder and louder so in fear of blowing something up I turned off the charger and logged on here

Has anyone experienced this before? There is a pretty hefty looking transformer inside the zig which I think may be the problem (if there is a problem? do the zig units always have a loud hum? do they settle down after a while?) - It looks like something you'd find in the back of a vintage valve guitar amp and god knows that I blew a few of those in my time

As always, any advice is appreciated!

[kevtherev]

I guess you answered your own question there.
the leisure batt is shagged so the zig is trying to charge it and because it's working very hard it's making a noise...as you would

[davidvincent]

I guess you answered your own question there.
the leisure batt is shagged so the zig is trying to charge it and because it's working very hard it's making a noise...as you would

Yeah, I suppose I was hoping not to fork out for a new leisure battery (the one I just tried was a donation from a pal.... thought I was being optimistic )

Ach... away i go to price up a new battery....

Dave

[kevtherev]

Well that depends on the batterys age and if it can be retrieved by a proper 3 phase charger.

I would get one of these as a matter of course anyway.
They cost a tenner, lidl has them from time to time but I'm sure e-bay will turn one up.
I rescued a leisure battery from the recyclers.. it was as dead as..but after a week on this charger the full batt light came on.
Now I have some ideas for you regarding "leisure" batteries
I use TWO Code 096 (75a/h) starter batteries in parallel giving me 150a/h
one would be enough for weekend use.. but I like to camp without the national grid in tow.
These starter batteries are cheaper Mine cost £72.
and alternators are good at charging them up.... fast.
it has an added advantage of being a usefull spare incase you forget to turn your lights off one night

[davidvincent]

Well that depends on the batterys age and if it can be retrieved by a proper 3 phase charger.

I would get one of these as a matter of course anyway.
They cost a tenner, lidl has them from time to time but I'm sure e-bay will turn one up.
I rescued a leisure battery from the recyclers.. it was as dead as..but after a week on this charger the full batt light came on.
Now I have some ideas for you regarding "leisure" batteries
I use TWO Code 096 (75a/h) starter batteries in parallel giving me 150a/h
one would be enough for weekend use.. but I like to camp without the national grid in tow.
These starter batteries are cheaper Mine cost £72.
and alternators are good at charging them up.... fast.
it has an added advantage of being a usefull spare incase you forget to turn your lights off one night

cheers, i'll have a think about those ideas, nice one.

i have also read a lot about elecsol lb's - i get the feeling though that these may be a false economy if being charged on the zig/hook up as the charge only goes to 80%.... then again i've heard lots of people say that the zig units often overcharge your lb... how do i know if the zig will stop charging or not?

elecsol: http://www.alternativeenergystore.co.uk ... attery.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i have a draper battery charger at home:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0117095090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it has slow or fast settings, is this anywhere similar to the charger you mentioned?

dave

[kevtherev]

it has slow or fast settings, is this anywhere similar to the charger you mentioned?

I doubt it, The leisure chargers force feed the battery with power not letting the battery decide how much it wants.
The better ones actually de-sulphate the plates as sulphated plates will slowly kill a battery, this is done by a reversing the current.
taken from a website...

HF technology gets rid of the lead sulphate crystallization of battery plates and recover the activeness of battery plates in time.

2. The micro-computer chip technology gathers analyzes feedback data from internal battery, switches the charging state in time so as to prevent short circuit, over-voltage, over-current, temperature-control phenomenon. Realizing the automatic control of charging state, it ensures the balance charging in winter and summer.

3. Positive and negative pulse technology eliminate polarization and sulfuration problems, activate the battery to enlarge its charge capacity, ensure the full charge and extend battery life effectively.

thats what the lidl charger does

or similar to this one that you could hard wire into the van for when your on hook up
http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/alfatron ... 87622.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[davidvincent]

ok cool, so in your experience is it definitely worth finding an alternative from the zig to charge your leisure battery/ies?

[kevtherev]

No not really, I'd use what you have, as the zig is fitted and by the sound of it working. On camp sites with mains it will do a good job of keeping your battery topped up.

I would however get a phased charger to give your battery a good boost. at least once a month.
One of my friends has hard wired a phased charger in and it works really well
Maybe if your impressed enough you'll do the same

The point of all this battery talk is really about what power you need for a weekend/weeks camping without being chained to the national grid, which in my opinion allows a lot more freedom of where you camp.

I run a TV DVD lights and a propex from a starter battery. In the winter it will last three nights without drama.
Now with two starters in parallel I can last a lot longer.
Summer months require less power so the second battery is junked to make room for beach stuff

I hope this helps

[davidvincent]

it does help, thanks

[davidvincent]

ooooookay....

so, today i got my hands on a sprightly new leisure battery, fully charged and kicking out a good reading on the multimeter i went ahead and installed. worked a charm, all appliances running as should. mint.

the problem.... again when i hook up the external mains supply and flick the zig to charge (to check the fridge etc) it builds up to a loud hum and vibrates a lot, i tried to let it run as long as poss to see if it settled down but it started to smell a bit hot, like the transformer was kicking off.... so i shut her down and here i am.

so, i'm wondering - i know the battery is mint so it isnt that but would the fact that it is fully charged cause a problem? if so it would be a nightmare to charge on site as id be constantly in fear of it going into meltdown.... i'm wondering could a faulty external cable be the problem? or perhaps the transformer really has bitten the dust and needs replacing? maybe there is a short in the back of the zig???

who knows? aaaanyone? all advice appreciated as ever.....

Best
Dave