Engine lid fire risk ?

[getunder]

In the current March edition of VW Camper and Bus there is sad account, with pictures, of a guys burnt out superbly restored Van. A fire started in the engine bay and despite the contents of two fire extinguishers being poured down the air vents it spread to the rest of the van and burnt it out completely. I think we can safely assume he switched off the ignition and therefore the petrol supply stopped. My question is what in an Aircooled engine bay supported continuing combustion ? From memory I can only assume the only thing there that it could be was the lining of the lid of the engine bay. Surely this was fire proof. Is it Unless of course in the course of restoration he replaced this with non fireproof material. Any other ideas ?

[eatcustard]

Fuel leak?

[big red bus]

Fuel pipes are the probable cause as with most engine firs on old vehicles. Metal ones corrode and the rubber ones perish. Most of the time these do not get changed and the end result is a burnt out bus. Engine lids are not flamable.

[mrted]

Early engine lids are metal, later ones are fibreglass,

I saw a burnt out petrol engined van at a scrappers once, it made me shiver!

Good reason to have diesel imho.


John

[Red Westie]

The sponge/sound deadening is fire retardant although I've never put it too the test.
To re-assure owners....I would say that the layout is pretty safe (engine at the rear) and the length of the van means you are rarely going to be trapped in the cab....it also means that the flames are fanned backwards away from the rest of the van when in motion and importantly, away from the fuel tank.
However....petrol is highly volatile, it has a low flash point and care must be taken to maintain the fuel system and electrics to a high standard.
Most fires are caused by perrished and corroded pipes but a high proportion are the result of bad ADDON or REPLACEMENT wiring, where users didn't properly crimp connectors, use sleaving to protect wires. Personally I solder all my joints, use proper cable and terminal sleaves and covers.
Also when replacing fuel hoses you must use FUEL GRADE pipe, many assume coolant hose is the same...it is not!
Martin

[lloyd]

Quite possibly the fire extinguishers down the vents never reached the fire because hot air rising from fire up the sides to vents. May have been better to blow them in under sides up into engine or through rear reg plate hatch.

[asahartz]

Most fires are caused by perrished and corroded pipes but a high proportion are the result of bad ADDON or REPLACEMENT wiring, where users didn't properly crimp connectors, use sleaving to protect wires. Personally I solder all my joints, use proper cable and terminal sleaves and covers.
Also when replacing fuel hoses you must use FUEL GRADE pipe, many assume coolant hose is the same...it is not!
Martin

While I am more than competent at soldering, I crimp all my vehicle connections with decent quality terminals (not the rubbish pre-insulated ones). You find very few soldered joints in a standard vehicle wiring loom, as they are prone to corrosion.

I did observe the effects of using non-fuel grade hose once, though I thought it was fuel grade, it had been put in the wrong box. Within a day it had gone soft and swelled to about three times its normal size! Fortunately the car had not been driven. But I've been very careful ever since.

Fire is a very scary thing, and most of the time you will be lucky if a normal car-type extinguisher puts it out. I've seen how fast it gets hold. A couple of years back my shed caught fire. We phoned the fire brigade immediately and grabbed the garden hose. By the time the firemen arrived (not long, though it seemed forever at the time), the 8' x 16' shed was fully alight, along with my caravan and the room on the back of my garage. The insurance claim ran to about £20k - from a shed fire.

[Red Westie]

I don't really agree with your statement about soldered joints corroding....the main reason vehicle harnesses are not soldered is cost.
The point is.. machine crimped joints are perfect and secure so don't need the added expense of being soldered, where as, the majority of home crimping tools do an adequate job at best and in some instances do not properly secure the wire, this produces a resistance in the connection and a potential for heat and subsequent fire (admittedly only in extreme cases)
You simply do not get this with a proper soldered joint.
I used to work at a very up market Mercedes dealership that did not allow crimped terminals let alone scotch locs. Every alarm, air conditioning kit or stereo had wiring that was fully soldered for safety and reliability.
Martin

[jason k]

from bitter experience i can say the sound deadening does burn.

my first wedge caught fire after fitting new dells, they had no filters and soaked the underside of the lid with petrol and then the new linkage rubbed thru a ht lead and whooof up it went.

i was lucky and managed to put it out by opening the numberplate flap and fired the extinguisher in thru there.

when i got the lid off it was burning merrily away.

oh and a 1kg extinguisher lasted about eight seconds.

[Bowton Lad]

Quite possibly the fire extinguishers down the vents never reached the fire because hot air rising from fire up the sides to vents. May have been better to blow them in under sides up into engine or through rear reg plate hatch.

The dry powder or whatever down the air vents is unlikely to reach the fire. Presumably, the owner saw smoke coming from the air vents & thought that was the best place to point the extingusher. As Lloyd suggests, the number plate hatch would be a good place to point an extinguisher or from underneath the vehicle.

[pocolow]

Just today whilst adjusting the fan belt tension I noticed the fuel pipe from the filter had a split in it where it went from rubber to a clear plastic pipe . Thankfully its a diesel so slightly less volatile , but still scary as I had just had my two Kids in the van for a drive. I will be checking ALL fuel lines and connections Tomorrow..

[big red bus]

Just because your van is diesel powered, does not mean it will not go up in flames. I have a Westfalia Atalntic 1600TD that has had a massive engine bay fire and destroyed 90% of the van. Let the picture tell the story.

[weldore]

nothing to do with vw campers/vans but....i was once out with my cous and he was in his car and i was in mine,we pulled into a petrol station for some juice and there was what we thort was steam coming from his escort mk2 bonnet.we opened the bonnet to see if he had burst a pipe and the air filter box was on fire and melting all down his engine.apparently it was caused by back firing into the air box,could this be a possible problem with the vans...an oil soaked plastic airbox going up in smoke?

[pocolow]

All very scary, does anyone know the best fuel hose to use for a 1.6 td bus???

[weldore]

my fuel line off the tank and onto the plastic one looks like it was fished up out the mary rose..i keep meaning to get it sorted but i keep forgetting...it will be my undoing if i dont get it fixed.