replacement 2.1DJ - won't start, no spark

Post by **MikeB** » 13 Jun 2006, 20:02

I've finally got my new VEGE engine installed and find that I can't get it to start.

Pic to prove I've not just chucked it in but done a 'proper job' with it

All of the bits actually involved in creating the explosions in the engine are carried over from the old engine so are known to be good. They've just been inspected, cleaned and painted.

The loom is a replacement but I've no reason to believe there is a problem with it as it came from a working engine.

I labelled the new loom using the old one as a guide before I unlpugged anything for removal so I am fairly confident everything is back in the right place.

Anyway to the point of the post;

It turns over, I can smell fuel (there's not a leak

) but it won't run.

Tried a few checks and when I pulled a plug there's no spark. Checked on the HT lead going into the dizzy and there's not spark there either so its not even getting that far.

I've got 12V to the coil (I remembered that this time

) There's a black live feed on one side and two green and a black/white on the other.

The two relays in the box on the left hand side; I pulled them out and with ignition on putting the relay in the left socket produces a click as it switches, not so on the right one (tried the relays the other way around as well in case it was a relay but no change)

SO, does anyone have any ideas 'cause I'm all out of 'em now.

Mike.

Post by **ermie571** » 13 Jun 2006, 21:18

Mike,

so very nearly there!!!

Can't offer any mechanical help, but would bringing our 2.1 over assist in any way? Moving parts around, seeing what goes where etc etc? Oh - we have a spare set of injectors to try if need be.

let me know

Emma

Post by **Mocki** » 14 Jun 2006, 07:08

I've got 12V to the coil (I remembered that this time ) There's a black live feed on one side and two green and a black/white on the other.

are they right way round? black to + green/ white to neg?

is there spark from coil?

Post by **MikeB** » 14 Jun 2006, 13:14

Thanks for the help.

I checked the wiring diagram in the Haynes and it says the Black and Black/White should be on the +'ve side and the Green ones on the negative side. (so I had that wrong)

Looked at my coil and there were no + and - symbols just '1' and '15'. Dug the spare coil out of the shed and the '15' has a small + next to it.

First coil - wired correctly - no spark.
Spare coil - wired correctly - the weakest spark I've ever seen, that would only jump 1mm at the most.

(Both these coils worked fine 3 months ago and it would be strange for both to fail now)

I've removed and re-attached the earths today so they should be OK.

Its a brand new battery and I had it on charge overnight so that's good.

Please feel free to state the obvious as its bound to be something I've missed or got wrong.

Mike.

Post by **MikeB** » 14 Jun 2006, 13:19

ermie571 wrote:Mike,

so very nearly there!!!

Can't offer any mechanical help, but would bringing our 2.1 over assist in any way? Moving parts around, seeing what goes where etc etc? Oh - we have a spare set of injectors to try if need be.

let me know

Emma

Thanks Emma, The injectors probably won't be needed as the problem appears to be on the ignition side of things.

Stand by though, I may need a source of known working parts

Mike.

Post by **Aidan** » 14 Jun 2006, 21:48

What are the test values of the coil ?
The primary resistance ( test between 1 and 15) should be of the order 0.5 to 0.8 ohms and the secondary (1 and HT) either 2.4 to 3.5K ohms or 6.9 to 8.5K ohms depending on wether it's a green sticker (the former, usual) or grey sticker coil.
IF the coil tests as in the correct range then the fault is likely to be elsewhere, ecu, amplifier, hall unit, wiring most likely

Post by **MikeB** » 14 Jun 2006, 22:20

No stickers on either coil.

I'll get out there and measure the resistances tomorrow and report back.

thanks,

Mike.

Post by **russ** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:08

Has a similar intermittent fault on my van, I've bypassed the idle stabilisation box located on the left hand side of the engine bay, and so far the fault hasn't returned.

Russ

Post by **T'Onion** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:25

my 1.9dg broken a small earth wire which killed the engine's spark, it was above the left hand bank of cylinders and looking at your piccie they havent been replaced

Post by **Mocki** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:40

the DJ should have a braided earth to that point too, on the 10mm bolt that threads into the hole on the top of the lh head, the ignition earths there too....

good call onion.

Post by **T'Onion** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:53

hehehe i remember that dark scary night after werk .. .. thats the little sod , fasten down witha 10mm bolt ..

Post by **MikeB** » 15 Jun 2006, 22:49

Thanks for all the ideas, some updates from today's shenanigans.

Russ: the idle stabiliser never went back in (the mounting tabs were broken I discovered when I took it off to clean the engine bay, I don't know how it stayed on there before) so its already bypassed,good call though.

The main thick earth lead (red in the picture above, not the HT lead, the other one) was replaced with a new one today as the original one was a little frayed. I will re-route it to somewhere else on the body though in case its not grounding properly. (Although the gearbox earth is on also)

There are about a dozen small earth leads that all come together and are bolted to the block under the inlet manifolds where you can't see them. I will check them again tomorrow and make sure they are good. (I couldn't see any problem with them)

I went round all the plugs on the loom today and checked they were all fully seated, didn't find any that did not appear to be OK.

I couldn't be sure of the resistance readings on the coils they seemed around the figures mentioned but just to rule it out I went and got another. Shiny new coil, still no spark on the end of the HT lead that goes into the dizzy

With the coil, I've got 12V on the +ve side, what should I have on the -ve side with the ignition on but the engine not running - 12v? or nothing?, or something in between?

When I had the DG in there (two engines ago

) there were no black boxes. Are the magic black boxes just for the injection or do they contribute to the spark as well on the DJ setup? There's the large one with the big plug on which I'm guessing is the main 'brain' then there's the black box which is like a very large relay with VDO written on it, and of course all the other sensors and stuff. If these are injection only then I can discount them.

Keep coming with the suggestions, it tempers my frustration a little that people are willing to help.

I need the van in two weeks time as I'm going away in it, and I need to sort an MOT before then and I'd like to run it about a bit before then and not make a 400+ mile return journey for the first run. So I'm starting to get a little anxious

Thanks again,

Mike.

Post by **ermie571** » 16 Jun 2006, 07:43

Mike - this seems totally daft, and I'm sure you've checked it...but is the HT from coil to dizzy shot....

yeah...done that already...

Again...shout if we can help in any way. Even if it is to drink tea and swear at the thing with you!!!

Don't give up now.

Post by **MikeB** » 16 Jun 2006, 10:50

I tried several HT leads so I don't believe that's the problem.

Keep going though 'cause I suspect its going to be something where I say "of course it was that, how obvious"

Mike.

Post by **Aidan** » 16 Jun 2006, 17:09

what were the coil test figures then Mike ? While you are at it check all the leads resistances, 2kohm +/-800 ohm for the ht lead 6k ohm +/-1400 ohm for the spark plug leads, all with 1k ohm of each other. Rotor 1kohm.