What are the best chemical rust treatments?

[futurecut]

I've got the Frost book and must say that Dinitrol and POR15 products are pretty damm expensive.

I know you'll say i shouldn't skimp on these things, but other people have told me that other cheaper stuff (by loctite i think) is just as good.

I don't have too much to do as far as i can see, but once i strip the paint back i might find it's worse than i was told. It had been given a v poor paintjob and the story to explain this was sheer nonsense!

Opinions please.

[Diamond Hell]

Clive (Harryman) will be along to give your thread some love very shortly.

[Hacksawbob]

http://www.club80-90.co.uk/wiki/index.p ... Glass_Rust
have a look here too

[HarryMann]

I don't use either of them, though Dinitrol is good for spraying around in tights spaces

DH, cheeekah but true, plenty love below on rust treatment

What I do use a lot is Eastwwods Rust Encapsulator, a fairly thick paint that can go over wire-brushed rust (not heavy scale though, chip it off then brush and degrease if not clean (Eastwoods's Pre).

Wouldn't use POR15, EW's RE easier to apply, but yes, anything decent is expensive paint wise, you get what you pay for so they say.

If you can find something you're happy with, use it, whatever it costs, but nobody knows for a year or few whether its really done the job.

Eastwood Rust Encap is £25/US quart (litre) ish. I'm on my 3rd or 4th I think, getting towards end of 2 vehicles, and also used a couple of spray cans of it too for difficult spots, though thick paint with £ shop throwaway brushes seems best, even two coats within 6 hours... Spray is £16 can, doesn't last long, keep in reserve.

RE doesn't partic. like shiny new metal, actually bonds to dry brushed rust better and I often go over top with EW Chassis Black, to give added toughness and where a 'finish' matters. Pretty well can topcoat over RE with any paint.

Good thing is this RE is thick enough to fill up gaps in underseal and gaps between spot welded seams that rust has forced apart. Decant into another tin to avoid despoiling it, thin with Laquer thinners whatever that is, I use Hammerite thinners (£4 for a tea cup full, deep intake of breath!), so add very little and only when too thick to use/bottom of tin.

The idea of RE is a total oxygen, water and light barrier, as well as a chemical neutralisation of the rust itself... another British invention nicked byt the US (and sold back to us)...
It's not too flexible like proper seam sealer, but nevertheless filled up seams inside and outside with it after removing scaley rust, and although it might crack, so far I've just larapped another coat in there, hoping it wil eventually get fed up. No rust on seams so far, 18 months.

You'll probably find most Red Zinc and other rust primers almost as much in litre quanttities, but usually sold in small cans.
I then use Waxoyl or Dinitrol inside blind sections... think its worth scraping/vacuuming out all detritus before Waxoyling/treating, and there will be a lot of scale and dirt in those sections, sand and silt if its a Syncro... e.g.


Thick malleable fencing wire, hooked around at ends is a great aid, but all takes time.

And elbow grease, buy a range of wire-brushes, single two and three row ones, and saw off the front pointy end, bit by bit as they wear out, giving much better access. Frost sell a stainless steel 3-row wire brush too, said to be much better, and they are!

Only time will tell of course...

[TOMMY THE CAT]

Great info there matey.......Kurust best rated in a recent Classic Car magazine test I quite like it for certain applications goes quite far for such small bottles.... someone will probably say its toss now!
I hate rust D

[Dud]

I use Kurust. Seems to work preety well. That and loads of wazoil in the seams etc seems to keep the rust at bay on the seafront.

[SyncroSam]

Wouldn't use POR15

Why is that Clive?

I got a tin of it to see what it was like, and was impressed (although at the price it ought to be bloody good). It does go a long way though and seems to be reasuringly tough. Don't get it on your hands though as it won't come off easily (been there, power sanded it off) or use a decent brush as you will ruin it.

Cheers,
Sam.

[HarryMann]

Taken in turn

I've used some of these more easily found treatments years ago, and probably forgotten how good or bad they each are, have some Kurust and its good stuff I'm sure.
Thing is, a couple of years ago I did a scan around to see what was the current state of play, bearing in mind what I'd seen under and around my van. Rust Encapsulator caught my eye, and maybe it was the name, their spiel and the odd comparative test (admittedly on Eastwood's site!) that made me try it.
I was looking at large areas and some that I'd be lucky to chip off heavy flakes, let alone get a wire brush anywhere near it (though I've a few magic brush extensions and even found a long curved double row one today, sitting lonesome on a peg, in the local Aladdin's cave). RE was supposed to be the business.

So I don't know if you are treating various small patches, or going thickly over several square feet, say the whole of a rear chassis rail (all 4 sides) from where it emerges from the rear cross member right to the back, and inside where you can get to it (spray can, long radiator style brush), or say, the whole inside of a Doka's lockers?
That's a few sq feet at a time, so however well it stretches, at the thickness its going on (don't spare the horses logic, we don't want yet another porous layer, rust is like a sponge!) - I couldn't get a big enough brush in most tins of Kurust, specially when I'm a*** about face, upside down trying to get a brush in a tin I 've no way of even seeing.
So as they say, I've started, so I'll finish (with it) - but I don't think I'm wasting my time or money from what I've seen so far.

== POR 15 ==
POR15 Sam... hehehe, these two, POR and Eastwood seem like very public mortal enemies
POR15 comes very highly recommended in many circles, with a lot of razzamatz, but some reasons maybe I went for an Eastwood product are:

POR seemed to require a two coat system (or 2-part?) for full protection, whereas I can choose to whack some Chassis Black over the RE - or not, its effective without a top coat, but Chassi Black makes it tougher;
Read a comparative trial on a rust bonnet on Eastwood site (independent test though) that favoured RE I(particularly if you wanted ease of use and maybe to spray it)
RE is part of a very wide range of Eastwood treatments and products, which should complement each other (Chassis Black, Detail Grey, Diamond Clear, etc.) and long standing company of repute in the US restorer's world.
The POR razzamatz probably helped make me go for the underdog in marketing volume

I've no idea which is best for our purposes, perhaps we should crawl about under one another's vans at Coney Farm, and swap rust-proofing know-how? On second thoughts, we'll probbaly both be far too busy

I've seen some weaknesses and limitations with Rust Encap, but nothing to stop me using it, as well as I can now get it here in Black.

== Safety ==
These are indeed nasty chemicals, the solvents are anyway, so when its all prepared and dry - get in there and whack a coat on - and get out!
Doesn't take to stippling after a few seconds (dries v. fast) just really needs larapping on, pasting into any gaps and crevices and brushing out in one go. Often go back 1/2 hr later and refill cracks and gaps.
I often whizz over the area with a hot-air gun now, warming it up and then immediatelylooking for tell-tale dark stains, signs of damp coming out from behind rust, underseal etc, leave it for a few minutes to dry and then paint.
Often ripping underseal open where it looks supsicious but not broken, reveals moisture and layered rust. Its hell to get it off, so I usually chip it with scraper and club hammer, or Stanley knife an area so it peels.

I always wear vinyl gloves, often 2 pairs when doing any of this sort of work, or those excellent blue but expensive nitrile rubber ones and goggles or a full face mask for wire brushing underneath. Already have eye damage from a grinding incident many years ago, got scratched again by falling rust a couple of years a ago - don't risk it, that fine dust drifitng about is not house dust either... its rust dust, very abrasive to eyes

[futurecut]

Thanks folks,
tho as i was made redundant today maybe the bus will start to look like an expensive luxury......

[HarryMann]

Sorry to hear that, never nice news that...