Snow / winter tyres - which ones?

[lloyd]

Tidus... or should I use Mr. Dux-a**

Have you heard of silicium carbide being used in the tread? I think I read somewhere of a Sandinavian manufacture making them in new tires instead of retreads.

Also, when I tried them they were about 30% of what they are charging for them now.

[joshb]

isnt silica in the vredestien winter jobbies?

[Titus A Duxass]

If by silicone carbide you mean additional studs then I can say that over here in the vaterland we are not allowed any form of studding, etc.

[mrted]

If by silicone carbide you mean additional studs then I can say that over here in the vaterland we are not allowed any form of studding, etc.

We have to change our tyres by law from Dec to Feb (tyres must be marked M&S and have 5mm of tread) usually the tyres are the same width or slightly narrower than the summer tyres.
Studded tyres are legal here and I always use them myself. The studs are small tungston(?) tips embedded in pockets in the tyre, and eventually wear out, lasting about 2-3 winters depending on mileage.
They certainly make a big difference, but they knock the stuffing out of the road surface when there's no snow. Some tyres can have studs added but only before initial fitting. Usually says on the sidewall. -2 here icy and a little snow!

John

[lloyd]

Titus,
They take silica carbide granules.. very small ones.. and mix them into the liquid tread rubber and form the tread. As you drive, the rubber wears faster then the silica allowing it to bite the road/ice and increase traction like hundreds of tiny studs. These tires are legal for year around use as they don't eat the roadway like studs do.

http://www.greendiamondtire.com/concept.html

[Syncro G]

The Finnish Army, the Sweedish Electricity Board.

I think the Finnish army now use diesel defenders

I would be very surprised if they used a petrol, but back in the late 80's and early 90's the other VW option was the low power diesel, plus the temperature must come into it. The defenders can now come with a kit to keep the diesel warm, and heat the supply pipes. Times have moved on and the modern diesel is an effective bit of kit. The dura-torque f ord defender engine is very nice, and the 6 speed gearbox excellent.
Mind you the south african bmw 6 cylinder petrol defender is in my books one of the best engines they have put in a landrover.

But interestingly millitry landys stayed with their mecanical 300Tdi engine rather than fit the comuter controlled rubish fitted to civvy models from 99 onward, that said that was a very high tech engine for its day, and still regarded is powerful. Land Rover don't make millitry models anymore though so whoever uses landys, they aren't brand new ones. The british army referbishes theirs which makes a defender XD Wolf a hard thing to come by on the privite market - the MOD buy them back! Can't see them having any of the duratorque models. That said modern militry kit does need to meet euro emission standards (300Tdi was euro I I think, maybe 2, certainly not more).

Think the main resion nordic coustomers would have avoided small capacity indirect injection diesels would be their poor starting abilitys in cold wethers - its just not such an issue on larger volume (truck) engines, or ones with direct injection (which again large engines tend to be). Bigger fuel lines help too. Another thing thats moved on, is not so much the engines, but the antiwaxing agents in the fuel itself! Winter diesel is much better than it used to be so -40° needent be a problem without any heating.

Anyone know of any legal issues of visiting places like Austria in a foregn registered (UK) vehicle and tyre choice in winter? A mate is thinking of going in his car next month but recons he'll have to shell out for tyres or he'll be in "pooh" insurance/police wise if he crashes on summer rubber. Presubably whilst thats the norm out there, its really in an issue between him and his british EU insurance so what they say would be the final word? Any views?

[mrted]

All EU insurance is valid EU wide to the minimum legal cover in that country, ie your third party will be ok for the length of your stay, its only the voluntary parts that are discretionary.

Check the tyre laws for each country, ie Germany no studs etc, if you crash with the wrong rubber on they will do you, and your voluntary insurance may be void.

UK insurance companies like to make you think you are getting a good deal with their EU cover, but its a legal requirement.


John (not the best speller ever!)

[Titus A Duxass]

I am not sure of the rules for Austria, but I do know that snow chains are mandatory on some roads (mainly in the mountains/ski areas).
Here in Germany winter tyres are NOT mandatory, but, if you cause the traffic flow to stop by some means and your vehicle is not suitably equipped for the weather/season you will get some grief from the authorities.

Your insurance company will probably use the same clause to wriggle out of any claim.

I can not imagine that Austria will be radically different.

[Syncro G]

So in short he's probubly right and does need winter tyres, though his insurance company won't bother makeing that clear untill after a crash when they use it to wriggle out of it?

[toomanytoys]

France too.. studs are possible (or at least were until recently) but in the "mountains" then you are daft not to have the new generation "alpine" marked tyres and a lot of roads you wont be able to go without and/or a set of snow chains..

To save sliding off the road and poss getting into bother with the locals might be best to invest in a set...

Oh and I still stand by my velle with its factory heavy duty suspension is not very good in the slippery stuff on the same tyres against my syncro doka (in 2wd without diff lock).... the syncro will go further.. both are better with weight in the back...

[mikey9]

Not sure about the need for M&S tyres for Winter use in Scotland unless you really hunt out the snow. Generally the roads either over the passes are closed by the police if (they consider) them unpassable - and the same with the ski roads.

Certainly I reckon 99%+ of cars in Inverness are on the same tyres they use all year - and many will head off to Cairngorm/The Lecht/Glenshee without chains and certainly they don't have an alternative set of tyres (I'm not saying they are right - just observing!)

We certainly don't bother swapping over for the winter months as conditions are rarely different to down South - and as others have said the T25 is pretty good in the snow with all that weight over the driving wheels - so go carefully on roads you can get down (most of them) and you'll be fine. If you feel better with M&S tyres on then go for it tho

[ThorAlex]

The Norwegian military used some air cooled T3's when they came, but for field use it's mainly gelandewagens. The gelandewagen has a heating system with water hoses that connects to an external water heating unit to heat the diesel and engine before starting:

Before that (when my father served in the late 60'ies) they just crawled under the Volvo jeeps with a primus and heated the fuel tank and lines with that. Also for sivillians there are the DEFA warmup system that connects to a 230v socket and can heat your engine and/or cab before you drive to work in the morning.

As for driving in snow snow or all season tires are mandatory, studs are optional. The driving education also includes a mandatory course on an ice track (ice in the winter or oil in the summer) where you learn to drive on ice. I did the course on a mix of ice and oil and in a car where the ABS could be switched off, I learned a lot from that. You definatly learn something from that. NAF (the norwegian automobile association) also have open days from time to time so you can come and try your own car on the ice.

My winter tires are studded nokians that came with the syncro when i bought it, they work fine on the road but really suck in deep snow. As for snow chains the easy to fit ones are just for emergencies, a few years ago my parents broke 3 chains in a week between the Passat and the Polo. If you want to drive anywhere in chains get some truck or tractor chains made for you wheels, they are not as easy to mount but can take a lot of abuse.

[Mr Bean]

Diesels are much better than petrols as usual here too.

I've been saying that for years.

Wrong forum... I'll get me coat....

Yes please do! I bet you have got a MAC computer, an arger stove and only drink bottled water as well. I have hated diesel engines ever since they introduced the Routmaster bus in place of the Trolleys busses in London. Damned foul all pervading smell together with that relentless chuntering tickover didn't help my travel sickness one bit. Got to admit the modern diesel engines are a bit better now but many of them still make a noise like a tractor.
Cheers
Petrol head wolfie.
Or do you think I am over reacting?

Oh yes and I agree having the engine over the rear- driven - wheels makes all the difference. Both my CF's were buggers for getting stuck in the mud/snow unless you drove them like a rally car.