Rusted seat belt anchor, welding repair & MOT

[neil3965]

Hi all - my first post on this most excellent forum.

I was prepping our newly acquired 1982 T25 camper (2.0L air-cooled, Devon) for MOT when I discovered a horrendous bodge repair around the driver's side seat belt anchor - severe corrosion had been patched with poxy resin and backing plate. The repair had just sucked up water ingress from the seam along the top of the wheel arch and made the corrosion worse - could poke a finger through the wheel arch within six inches of the anchor bolt!

Planning a weld repair along the lines of this (from an Aussie forum) -

[img:800:600]http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n50/ ... 0_2306.jpg[/img]

[img:800:600]http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n50/ ... 0_2312.jpg[/img]

Question - will this be good enough to pass MOT? Has anyone any experience of passing or failing an MOT with a similar repair?

Will a backplate with welded nut (as in the piccy above) do the trick, or should I get an 'official' seat belt anchor plate of the type sold by JK?

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers
Neil

[The_blue]

Mine is a new plate and a large nylock nut/bolt the same at the photo. They never said a word.

I can't see any issues

[jamesc76]

Should be fine make sure its a decent grade/thickness of steel and the bolt is the correct sort!

[kit]

Mine is the same although not as neat, I did it myself and painted loads of black rubber paint all over it

[Mr Bean]

I think that the criteria is that the large panel is continuously welded to good metal and that the smaller panel is strong enough not to have the fixing rip out. I had a van with a chassis fail the MOT as there was body corrosion within (from memory) something like a foot away from the fixing even though the fixing was on a chassis completely independent of the bodywork. So find out what that rule is and check it out.
However irrespective of what the MOT man says you have to be sure it would handle a shock load (again from memory) of probably in excess of say ten times your body wieght. People with good seat belts often walk away from some very nasty pile ups!
Cheers
Smiffy

[KarlT]

[IMG:640:480]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/ ... ing002.jpg[/img]

Ahhhh, the joys of having old bangers!!

[fullsunian]

Hi Neil, ya that repair would be fine. As long its welded all the way round and uses steel the same or thicker. It's an MOT pass all day long...
IAN

[neil3965]

Many thanks all - will let you know how it goes.

Neil

[Red Westie]

As a past MOT tester myself I cannot see any problems with a quality repair as in the pic.
A word of caution though.....the repair needs to be continously welded to a high standard, pigeon "pooh" or any weld that hasn't properly flowed is unexceptable.
And, as far as MOT testers are concerned.....a repair burried under a quater of an inch of black bitchemin underseal is very suspect...I/they would prefer to see the repair before it is covered up....to check it's integrity.
Certainly employ a large re-inforcement plate on the rear, bolts need to be high tensile and at least the same diameter as the original, a nylock lock nut is preferred.
If it looks strong it will pass (and by that I don't necessarily mean neat)
Martin

[neil3965]

Thanks Red Westie - I was planning to leave the repair in primer for the MOT man - the underseal can wait till after!

[bigbluebullybus]

As a past MOT tester myself I cannot see any problems with a quality repair as in the pic.
A word of caution though.....the repair needs to be continously welded to a high standard, pigeon "pooh" or any weld that hasn't properly flowed is unexceptable.
And, as far as MOT testers are concerned.....a repair burried under a quater of an inch of black bitchemin underseal is very suspect...I/they would prefer to see the repair before it is covered up....to check it's integrity.
Certainly employ a large re-inforcement plate on the rear, bolts need to be high tensile and at least the same diameter as the original, a nylock lock nut is preferred.
If it looks strong it will pass (and by that I don't necessarily mean neat)
Martin

I've got a query about the whole continuous weld thing. My other half is asme 9 coded and from day to day works on pressure vessels where his work has to be 'bombed' ( x-rayed by someone from Lloyds) in order to check for flaws, weaknesses, adequate penetration etc. To date he has never had a fail and always has plenty of work coming in as a result.

However, with practice your average Joe could get away with producing a fair looking run of continuous weld that looks strong - but isn't. I suppose the key phrase is 'the repair needs to be continously welded to a high standard' but who decides this? Continuous welding can fail - even if it 'looks' strong. The overall appearance (neat or otherwise) should not be taken as an indicator of its integrity - surely there's something a little more scientific that should come into play when making a judgement between MOT pass or fail.

And what's the thinking with regards to spot welding? Is it any stronger? Would it be acceptable to use for some repairs - bearing in mind that yer average bus is pretty much held together with spot welds? I'm not suggesting that welding repairs on vehicles should consist entirely of spot welds and nothing else - it's very much horses for courses and depends on the type of repair you're undertaking at the time. Does it have to be continuous weld for everything if you want to pass your MOT?

[Red Westie]

I guess there are a few things to answer there....
An MOT tester has to be a fully qualified and experienced mechanic and as such has.....in my experience.....considerable knowledge generally, including knowing a fair amount and having some first hand experience of welding.
I was a reasonable welder...not brilliant by any means, but I can definately tell what is or isn't any good, sure...any decision made is an opinion but based on experience.
We know the MOT tester has a bible of rules to guide him or her through fair process but much about MOT testing and whether something should pass or fail is just that persons opinion based on their own experiences and going back to my first comment, To become an MOT tester you have to be qualified and have over 5 years? experience.
There are rules about welding type, whether continuos or spot and from memory it depends on wether the area is considered to be 'a load bearing point' which in this case it is.
Also ask yourself how any load bearing point is tested...I certainly couldn't rip out a seat belt anchor, even if it were rusty but then it would be a judgement..in my opinion...of excessive corrosion to an area within a certain distance from a load bearing point (think it's 12inches)
I guess you can see now how an MOT tester puts his/her reputation on the line when making these judgements and why opinions differ so much between testers.
All MOT testers go through regular checks and are observed carrying out tests frequently to ensure fairness and a degree of uniformity but there's no getting away from the fact that your van will pass or fail based on their opinion.
Martin

[neil3965]

The MOT Testers Manual is available online here -

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

Here's what it says about welded repairs:

"It is essential that repairs to corroded areas are properly carried out. Only welding is acceptable for repairs to 'prescribed areas'.

Suitable materials of appropriate gauge and thickness should be used for repairs so that:

- Any plating or welding extends to a sound part of a load bearing component, and

- The repair must be virtually as strong as the original structure

So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, (even if the patch extends beyond the prescribed area) although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed. (provied the original defective panel flange has been removed)

Stitch or plug welding is acceptable as an alternative to spot welding in these cases.

Welded repairs to highly stressed components such as steering/suspension arms, rods, levers etc are not normally acceptable."