T25 1.6TD - very noisy engine and running on oil....

[tj2008]

OK, so here's the saga so far.

Bought a van with a 1.9 Peugeot 305 engine in it - ran fine. half way to Spain, engine fell out (poor mounting of the engine so it just sheared off it's mountings). Suggestions all around that a new engine needed - best go with a 1.6TD.

1.6TD bought and sent to garage to install. Garage installs, replaces blown head gasket (I knew it was like that when I bought it). Engine get's run up and mechanic suggests the engine is making an awful banging noise (like a washing machine with a brick in it!) and it's not picking up oil.

Take the van to a different garage (first one didn't want to deal with it anymore unless I was going to put another engine in it - they saw that one as knackered) and got told that the engine is running on it's own oil (?) but that it hasn't run out - if the revved it they thought it might not stop running so they didn't......! This garage (not a VW specialist) suggested again, best course of action new engine.

Over the phone, another garage attached to a scappy (nr Huddersfield) suggested that the problem could be the turbo.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to what this might be????

[HarryMann]

Yes could be the turbo leaky seals bad putting the oil into the inlet...

could try running without turbo just to see (not on road like)

But could also be berathing badly, disconnect breather and see what fumes if any is coming out when revved - be careful, might need a fire extinguisher to stop it if runs on oil

[tj2008]

Thanks Harry mann....

So I'll try her without the turbo on tomorrow and see what difference that makes.

As for the second point (and please excuse my absolute lack of technical knowledge!) - what smoke would mean what when I disconnect the breather (if there's any at all)?

Also - is there any way that the garage could have cocked up with the replacement head gasket to cause this sort of problem???

Thanks for your help!

[HarryMann]

Also - is there any way that the garage could have cocked up with the replacement head gasket to cause this sort of problem???

Yes, I've heard they can be put on wrong way around, but there should be signs of that (the sticky outy tabs won't be where they should be)...

You don't want to see a lot of mist/blue smoke out of the breather when its just quickly revved (certianly not after its warmed up for a minute or two)

[Simon Baxter]

Garage attached to a scrappy near Huddersfield isn't me by the way...

But, sounds like the first garage who put the head gasket on put it on upside down blocking the oil feed to the head.

[andysimpson]

Head gasket can be fitted wrong which will stop oil supply to head. Sounds to me like your paying peanuts and getting monkeys on the job, this a a very simple engine, why 2 garages can not fix it is beyond me. You need someone that knows diesels and ideally knows vw diesels well otherwise your pissing in the wind. What exactly did they do to the head? valve clearances? check for flatness? skimmed? timing perfect?

I know of this engine and have seen it running prior to you having it, it was smooth and smoke free and certainly not what your describing and i REALLY know my stuff with volkswagen diesel engines.

[tj2008]

Hi Andy,

You're right, the engine was sold to me I expect in good condition (I didn't see it running so could never by 100% - however, if you say it was then that's good enough). The action of the seller afterwards was A1 when I got any problems so speaks volumes.

Peanuts would be completely the wrong word - £1400 at the garage in Bristol to take the old engine out, skim the head, a mess up with knowing that they were supposed to sort the head out (seems they forgot) - therefore in and out twice, then a load of spares to convert from a peugeot to a vw.......not so cheap.

I know I got screwed (by the garage), I just can't really prove any of it.

The van was sent to this garage by a reputable vw garage in bristol - to be fair I expected more from them, but that's why they were used.

The van's now near Pontefract at a garage - friend of the family but as you suggest, he's not a VW specialist. It's more about trust now for me and I'm clutching at straws.

Simon - I know you're flat out. Do you know when you could look at it or could you suggest anyone else that could?

[Simon Baxter]

Beginning of Nov is the next available date, I'm a bit, er busy!

[HarryMann]

tj, all sounds an awful horror story, sorry to hear it...

It also sounds very complicated and hard to follow the thread so to speak, esp. with you living in Leeds

If that Bristol garage charged £1400 and put the head on wrong maybe, shouldn't they be sorting it out?

[tj2008]

Thanks HarryMann,

I'm going to have the head taken off and get it checked.

Thanks for your help

[HarryMann]

Photograph everything as it comes apart then...

The garage that sent it to the one that did the work, that you originally had the repair contract with, are the ones responsible. You shouldn't talk to the other one directly...

[tj2008]

OK, engine taken apart by garage 'up North' and they conclude that the head gasket was put on correctly. Photos attached for viewing if anyone thinks differently.

What they did point out is that cylinder 4 seems to have a water problem or something similar, due to the lack of oil staining. So, they suggest either a crack in the head gasket or the block. Head needs to be pressure tested for this I expect which we will work on in the next few weeks. Not sure about testing the block but will do some more research. Their conclusion is as above and also possible damage to the turbo - tbc.

Interesting thing I suppose is the amount of oil staining on the pistons - seems a lot for a head that had only just recently been skimmed (and we looked closely and this definitely had happened). Not too sure what to think of that.

Any comments. suggestions etc very much welcome.

Pictures viewable using link below;

http://picasaweb.google.com/tj2008a/VanEngine

[andysimpson]

OK, engine taken apart by garage 'up North' and they conclude that the head gasket was put on correctly. Photos attached for viewing if anyone thinks differently.

What they did point out is that cylinder 4 seems to have a water problem or something similar, due to the lack of oil staining. So, they suggest either a crack in the head gasket or the block. Head needs to be pressure tested for this I expect which we will work on in the next few weeks. Not sure about testing the block but will do some more research. Their conclusion is as above and also possible damage to the turbo - tbc.

Interesting thing I suppose is the amount of oil staining on the pistons - seems a lot for a head that had only just recently been skimmed (and we looked closely and this definitely had happened). Not too sure what to think of that.

Any comments. suggestions etc very much welcome.

Pictures viewable using link below;

http://picasaweb.google.com/tj2008a/VanEngine

1. That head gasket is on upside down, no oil to head.
2. Every piston has fresh impact damage from valves, timed wrong.
3. Cylinders 1+4 have not sealed, either head not tightened fully or head badly distorted or just a cheap nasty gasket.

Looks like you found another one of THEM so called mechanics, if i can clearly see that in pics why can't they, i am not saying head is not cracked but straight away looking at the pic of the head the gasket has not formed an air tight seal between head and block. This is a very simple engine how 1 mechanic can do it wrong and another not see whats wrong is totally beyond me.

[tj2008]

Andy,

thanks for the response - they obviously don't have the experience you have.

Does anyone have any photos of a head gasket on the right way around that I could send with these ones to the garage in question to show them the mistake they've made???

[HarryMann]

Did the garage that fitted it also bill for 10 new head bolts (replaceable stretch bolts)? Dya think they followed the full torque and angle tighten down procedure.

Injector patterns look appalling in one cylinder if not two...