Campers and alcohol

[jpee]

Does anyone know of the legality of drinking alcohol while parked up in camper?

A friend of mine was disqualified recently. He was using his transit as a 'camper' though it wasn't converted, air bed and sleeping bag. Police woke him up breathalyzed him and done him for being in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence.

[dwayne]

taken from this thread https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... t=drinking

Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
Think this is relevant...ie curtains drawn,bed down etc.

[AngeloEvs]

This is a bone of contention and, unfortunately, if parked in a public place and you are in posession of the keys, the police can charge you if you are over the legal limit. I think a lot depends on the circumstances, whether you are in a proper camper and the discretion of the officers. Pretty sure you will get a lot of replies on this one.

[benico]

In my younger years when i occasionally kipped in my car after a night out (no room at the inn/to tight to pay for a taxi etc) i used to take of the dizzy cap/spark plug lead to imobilise the car - this way i could claim that there was no way i could drive/move the car should the fuzz knock on. Though it could still be claimed that i was 'in control' of the car. Never got challenged so dont know if this would have worked - i think sleeping in cars is seen a normal behaviour in Macclesfield! - prob more likely to get a knock in touristy areas such as Cornwell etc.
Nowadays in the Joker i think it would be a fair defence to say i m sleeping - if you're sober and they ask you to move on you should be able to claim that your to tired to drive and need a rest - there are enough ads telling you not to drive tired, not sure how it would work if you ve had a drink though - it could be argued that been too pissed to drive is as good, if not a better reason than been too tired.

[jpee]

It was recently reported in our local rag that a policeman was charged as drunk in charge while sitting in car with engine running. He was let off his defence being that he was just sitting in car talking to his girlfriend and had just switched on the engine for warmth!!!!!

Forum link answered a lot.

regards
Jpee

[Bilbo Blue]

Yeh, thats about right aint it. One rule for them etc..........

[elsid]

My son was sleeping his car after a night out, he was parked in a public car park. A policeman woke him up during the night to ask what he was up to. My son explained that he been out for a drink and was sleeping it off before driving home the following day. The policeman told him he could be done for drunk in charge, he told my son to put the car keys under a wheel and roll the car on to it and he would be OK. I wouldn't fancy doing that with a modern car key with remote locking but if the keys are out of reach it seems OK
Sid

[CycloneMike]

This may have been done before but if it helps:

Road Traffic Act 1988 s. 5 states:

(1b) If a person is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.

It goes on to state:

(2)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under 1b above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.

Further:

(3) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelhood as is mentioned in (2) above, disregard any injury to him or any damage to the vehicle.

Summary
(1) If you do it you commit an offence.
(2) It is the court who decides if you are guilty not. The Police just present evidence to a court via CPS for a decision. If you can convince a court you weren't going to drive then you don't get punished.
(3) The court can disregard your excuse if they don't believe you. So it may not matter what you do with the keys or dizzy cap, but any attempt to limit the chance of driving surely must help.

Of course at stage (1) Police may choose, but aren't obliged to use discretion. In these government driven performance league tabled times, discretion is being eradicated in favour of zombies in uniform, who may be instructed to arrest and let the courts decide.
By the letter of the law above, any campsite (public place) will be full of drunks in campers who commit the offence. But there will be stated cases where a gerneral defence of camping in a suitable place will be accepted as a defence, so thankfully we are left alone to get on with it.
I think as has been said before, be sensible where you park, don't draw attention to yourself and be prepared to explain if asked, why and how you don't intend to drive till sober.
If they find you drunk, asleep at the wheel, parked on a clearway, then you want locking up

This is not legal advice, It is just my interprtation of what I have read!

[AngeloEvs]

I had a drunk driver damage my car on a Social Club car park. When the police arrived they said they could not convict as it was not deemed a public place. The law may have changed, but I don't think it has. You can drink to your hearts content on a campsite.

[CycloneMike]

Your social club may not be a public place if it is only open to members, it probably depends on signing etc.
There is a test as to what is a public place. I have copied whats below from elsewhere for your info.

Public Place under the Road Traffic Act

In order for it to be proven that somewhere is a "Public Place" for the purposes of road traffic offences it must be shown by the prosicution that:

Those people who are admitted to the place in question are members of the public and are admitted as such, not as members of some special or particular class of the public (eg people belonging to an exclusive club) or as a result of some special characteristic tha is not shared by the public at large, and;

Those people are so admitted with the permission, express or implied, of the owner of the land in question.

Places that have stated cases that show them to be public places are:

1. A privately-owned Caravan site open to campers (DDP v Vivier [1991] RTR 205)

2. A school playground used outside of school hours as a leisure park by members of the public (Rodger v Normand 1994 SCCR 861)

3. The "Inward Freight Immigration Lanes" at Dover Eastern Docks (DPP v Coulman [1993] RTR 230)

4. A field used in connection with an agricultural show (Paterson v Ogilvey 1957 SLT 354)

5. A Multi Storey car park (Bowman v DPP [1991] RTR 263)

[chrisray]

My son was sleeping his car after a night out, he was parked in a public car park. A policeman woke him up during the night to ask what he was up to. My son explained that he been out for a drink and was sleeping it off before driving home the following day. The policeman told him he could be done for drunk in charge, he told my son to put the car keys under a wheel and roll the car on to it and he would be OK. I wouldn't fancy doing that with a modern car key with remote locking but if the keys are out of reach it seems OK
Sid

Imagine having thought of this idea, you started rolling the car and was immediately caught by a copper and had to explain what you was doing
Thought that was a bit odd.. though.

[Mr Bean]

Does anyone know of the legality of drinking alcohol while parked up in camper?

A friend of mine was disqualified recently. He was using his transhite as a 'camper' though it wasn't converted, air bed and sleeping bag. Police woke him up breathalyzed him and done him for being in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence.

The whole idea of drinking is to make you feel happy/better/less vulnerable/more relaxed/ invincible/less risk averse/etc. So by definition any driver who has been drinking has impaired judgment and could misuse the keys wherever he/she may have hidden them. He/she could even hot wire the vehicle if sufficiently desperate!
Regards
Ken
(Lost my best mate to booze! He didn't have an accident or die or anything just talks bollards and falls into a drunken stupor half way through the evening)