Starter motor removal not going well!

[mackenga]

Hi folks! I'm new to the forum and I'd really appreciate some help with this one.

My van is a 1980 T25, air cooled petrol engine (1970cc) with automatic transmission (right hand drive). No idea who did the original conversion as the interior's long gone, but it has always been a camper. I bought this quite recently and initially everything went pretty well.

After a recent trip away the starter motor packed in. Not sure exactly what's wrong with it but it draws power from the battery and nothing happens - not even a click from the solenoid. I've got a replacement motor but am struggling to get the old one off. The power connector snapped on removal so I can't really try much with the existing motor, but all I need to do is remove it!

After a bit of puzzling I found the nut in the engine bay and removed both bolts completely. I expected the starter to budge after that - nothing in the Haynes manual or any website I've found suggests it won't. I can't feel any more bolts and I've hit it with various tools from various sides (including a healthy big rubber mallet) and I've pulled on it so hard I thought I was going to knock the van off the axle stands but I can't shift it. (Although it is hard to get much force on it; there's not much room!)

Originally I thought it was years of grime and gunk sticking it there but I'm convinced there's something else. I'm having nightmares about the starter's pinion still being seized in the engine or something and what *that* might mean for my chances!

Am I just being stupid here? Any suggestions, tips, advice would be much appreciated!

[dugcati]

I seem to recall that the clutch slave cylinder mounting bracket also fixes on through one of the starter bolts - have a feel/check over the other side of the starter in case this is holding the starter in place.

If this is happening you might need to unbolt and move the clutch slave cylinder+mounting brackets a bit to allow enough movement to rotate and withdraw the starter

Doug

[mackenga]

Thanks a lot for the advice, and the incredibly rapid reply!

I'm out from under the van for the day now so I'll need to look again tomorrow. I can't feel anything still in the way but maybe I just didn't look hard enough last time.

When I took off the nut in the engine bay that holds the second bolt in I did notice there was another similar nut over the other side - does this have anything to do with that? Not sure what it holds.

Thanks again!

[Nicola&Tony]

Some photos, and wiki links, which might help you:

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=15

Based on a water cooled van though.

Tony

[ermie571]

the air cooled removal is in wiki......click on the hammer ^^^^ and then put starter in the search box. Item number 2 is the 2.0 lt Aircooled removal. But if you have both bolts off the starter should move!

Good luck

Em
x

[mackenga]

I've had another look at this today and I still can't see any obstruction or move the starter from where it is. I've taken a few photos showing the starter and the engine bay where I removed the nut - you can see both bolts are gone and I'm pretty sure there's nothing visible in the way. The pictures are at:

http://www.radicalabacus.org/van/

If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them, I'm really stuck here!

(I have checked the wiki, among other places, and followed the procedure as far as I can - the problem is they all say the motor should come off at this point and it feels like it's as well attached as it was before I took out the bolts!)

[jamesc76]

As you have checked eveything is disconected whack it with a big hammer not rubber but a proper hammer you said its packed up working so your gonna be no worse off!!! Im a mechanic and you should see how hard some things are to get off if they been on for a good few years!!! It is a bit scary hitting stuff for the first time but it will come off!

[mackenga]

Cheers for the tip, I have been a bit scared to really whack it. Not much room to take a swing with a hammer down there either, but I did have one idea - what d'you think of the idea of putting a jack up against the solenoid and using that to force the starter round clockwise? I figure if it's attached by gunk the weight of the van should twist it round a bit and free it up. Then I could put the van back on the axle stands and pull the motor out.

From what you're saying it sounds like that's not such a bad idea; like you say, I don't care if the old starter gets pretty mangled in the process as long as it comes out of there. Looking at the new one, it looks like once the bolts are out forcing it to twist won't break anything (valuable).

PS: Your van looks like mine should

[Mocki]

well it aint the clutch slave bracket,
1. its a auto
2. it would be on the other side of the bellhousing


so turn the engine with a large spanner, sounds like it jammed in the flywheel, then "idiot" it with a FOB hammer, it will fall off.

only two bolts hold it on afaik, although im not familiar with autos.

[CovKid]

"tvvat it" - now theres a guy who has worked on V-dubs a long time -

He's right though!

[mackenga]

Hi folks,

In case anyone's interested, here's how this went eventually:

Thanks for all the encouragement with this. I finally got the starter off by stacking up bricks under it and placing an axle stand on top, touching the solenoid, while the rear right corner of the van was jacked up. Then I lowered the jack and clunk - free. I'll add this trick to the wiki if I get a minute - it's particularly handy on an auto where there's a rod in the way that attaches to the throttle linkage so there's really no room for violence.

In my case the falling starter wrecked the fuel line but that was easy sorted (just replaced all the fuel line in the engine bay while I was at it, none of it was looking very healthy).

Now I'm onto the next thing - but I'll post that as a new topic since it's totally unrelated.

Thanks again everyone!