Why block of the advance and retard system ?

Post by **..lee..** » 12 Jul 2008, 20:21

its probally been blocked off because there`s a fualt with it.

check the diaphragms are ok before you reconnect them.

Post by **jason k** » 12 Jul 2008, 21:26

the vaccume can on the dizzy is prob fubar.

these are obsolete so second hand is the only option.

dont fit a 009 dizzy they dont work properly.

try

www.syncrospares.co.uk
for a vacc can / dizzy

Post by **HarryMann** » 12 Jul 2008, 22:49

Strobe and watch the timing mark move as revs increase (vac advance) or suck on the pipe and watch the dizzy back plate (move)

Read the Wiki on the subject fisrt though, so you know what 'should' be happening...

http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petro ... gnition_01

http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petro ... gnition_02

Post by **HarryMann** » 14 Jul 2008, 18:16

About as bad as your current one without the vacuum connected

They are a compromise dizzy, with no vac advance I believe, for performance when everything is setup correctly..

TBH, if you want good clean running, economy at part throttle and power at full throttle, get your exisiting system working with at least the vac advance side working (if you've read the links, you'll see that the vac retard is mainly for emissions). You'll have to set the static timing to suit though, as it takes into account the retard from the vac retard tapping next to the throttle butterfly.

Have you established whether the vac advance unit responds to vacuum?

You never know, there might be nothing wrong with the dizzy, prev owner may have been under the illusion (i.e. 'someone' told them) that they go better without it

Post by **jason k** » 14 Jul 2008, 19:44

009 is basically a type 1 motor dizzy, it retards on no3 cylinder.
plus back to points etc.
get the proper one for it. vw did

Post by **lloyd** » 15 Jul 2008, 06:24

009 does not retard #3 and almost all type 1's came vacuum advance. Early Porsche had no vac advance (010 and 019 I think) and were made of steel (didn't retard #3 either). 09 dissy is a cheap copy of them made of aluminium.

Post by **HarryMann** » 15 Jul 2008, 08:00

Yes, what is all this about retarding No. 3? Where does that come from

The original Cooper 'S' had a dizzy without vac advance too. Vac adv units are a bit 'hit and miss' to say the least, reduce the overall accuracy of timing and of course, are yet something else to malfunction (whence detonation might occur). Their main function is to increase part-throttle economy.

Post by **lloyd** » 15 Jul 2008, 17:20

Original type 1's had #3 retard because it ran hotter with oil cooler in tower. Later engines with 'doghouse' cooler did not retard #3. Vacuum is used to advance.. and retard in some cases depending on amount of vacuum engine has. Won't even try to explain any farther as it gets crazy depending on emissions, fuel ratio, heat, pinging, etc.

Post by **jason k** » 15 Jul 2008, 19:54

perhaps your right, either way a 009 wont run right on a type 4 motor.

if it would why would vw go to the expense of designing one for it??

just fit the correct parts, it will be easier in the long run.

try volksheavan or syncrospares for one.

Post by **lloyd** » 15 Jul 2008, 19:59

what /\ /\ /\ said

Post by **dekker** » 18 Jul 2008, 21:38

Sorry to jump in but earlier post from Harry has got me worried. I've a 1600CT engined van with twin 34ICT carbs and stock dizzy. I've connected advance vacuum but just blocked off retard vacuum on dizzy. Timing has been set as standard, which I guess is wrong?

Thanks, D.

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Jul 2008, 22:53

Dekker.

Sorry if I've raised your BP unnecessarily

.... I think its a matter of how it was set, if it was set using a strobe and following the book then it may be wrong, but if it was statically timed then chances are it is correct...

This is the relevant info from the Wiki, which are deductions from basic theory mixed with info extracted from Bentley manual for a 2.0 CU engine.
So your CT 1600 may require some of the figures changing...

Wiki wrote: 4b) Thus we get a Vac Retard of about 12 deg. max at idle (850~950 rpm)

5) Combined with a static setting of about 7 deg BTDC, this gives a strobe reading at 900 rpm of about 5 deg. ATDC - this is for emissions and smooth idling.

This 5 ATDC is the datum quoted with both vac tubes connected and the Idle Stabiliser Unit's connectors, if fitted, plugged together. [But please see CumbrianKeith's specifics section below]

6) As soon as the throttle is opened significantly, this signal (1) (vac retard) disappears, but is almost immediately replaced with the beginnings of the vacuum signal (2) (vac advance) which will advance the ignition somewhat;

So what is your static ignition setting? About 7 deg BTDC, maybe a couple less for a 1600?

If it isn't pinking badly under load (too adv) or running hot or popping back (too ret), it's prob not too far out