Oil in the diesel starter motor - possible sources?

Post by **ringo** » 14 Jul 2008, 10:28

Hi,

As stated above, im getting oil in the starter motor (in fact, the starter motor died and im assuming its because there is oil in it).

Has anyone got any experience of this?

I can only think its oil from the crank, or oil from the gearbox.

The clutch is fine and doesnt slip at all!

Any ideas or pointers?

Much appreciated

Ringo

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 14 Jul 2008, 10:38

If it's oil from the gearbox it'll have that distinctive gear oil smell ... unlikely to be from there though as the gearbox isn't under pressure, if the input shaft seal's gone it'll just run down inside the bell housing and drip on the floor.

If it's the rear crankshaft oil seal then it's a barsteward, gearbox off, clutch out, flywheel off ... all for a £3 bliddy seal.

Sorry, Ian.

Post by **airhead** » 14 Jul 2008, 11:12

You sure a PO didnt try remedying a starter motor problem by pumping it full of oil?

Strip the motor and work through it methodically trying to find other possible causes of failure, disregarding the oil for the moment. Look at the brushes, armature, bearings, solenoid and bendix assembly.

Post by **HarryMann** » 14 Jul 2008, 11:26

I'd say airhead might have hit the nail on the head if you've not owned it long?

Post by **ringo** » 14 Jul 2008, 11:51

Sorry - i've got two vans - and i've owned this one for 5 years and its gone through 3 starter motors in the last year

Somethings up, and i need to sort it.

I might try stripping the starter to have a look anyhow - but this one only lasted three months.

Initially, i thought it was sub-quality starters from GSF - but now i cant think that after three of the bloody things. (thank god they were on warranty).

Ian, i reckon you might be right about the crank shaft seal - the van has had an annoying oil leak ever since i put this engine in....

Thanks guys,

Ringo

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 14 Jul 2008, 12:06

ringo wrote: the van has had an annoying oil leak ever since i put this engine in....

Bu&&er !

Not entirely au fait with the derv set-up but on a WBX there's no-where else for oil to come from. Is the starter at the bottom on an oil burner ? There's only 2 sources though and sadly it sounds like you've answered your own question.

The flywheel bolts on a WBX are a 10mm Allen key .... shout if ya need to borrow owt.

Ian.

Post by **ringo** » 14 Jul 2008, 12:17

Yes - its bit of a bugger, but as i keep telling my dad (and every other annoying get that asks "why dont you buy a new one"), "its my hobby"

I love it

Ringo

Post by **airhead** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:00

The starting motor is at the top of the gearbox in a diesel van. I dont see how oil could get into the motor without it ruining the clutch as well. Be more specific... How is the motor failing? Is the bendix gear wearing out? Solenoid failing? Whats happening for the motor to stop working?

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:00

ringo wrote: but as i keep telling my dad (and every other annoying get that asks "why dont you buy a new one"), "its my hobby"

I love it

Ringo

Yep, one of Tara's friends' Mum said "Oh Ian, wouldn't it just be easier to buy a new one ?!" ... this as I was soaking wet, working in the dark removing the deceased DG prior to putting the recon 2.1 in ... I could barely find civil words to express my delight so just laughed

Ian.

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:04

airhead wrote:The starting motor is at the top of the gearbox in a diesel van. I dont see how oil could get into the motor without it ruining the clutch as well.

On our's it was hitting the back of the flywheel and had eventually soaked the new clutch plate, guess it could be flung upwards along the flywheel into the starter ?

Ian.

Post by **airhead** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:12

Yeah but I reckon by the time it got into the internals of the motor enough to stop it from working, the clutch would be well and truly soaked. The bendix and throwout assembly are designed to take a bit of dust and dirt and I dont think oil would make any difference to their operation. If anything Id have thought it would make them work better!

Post by **ringo** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:48

Good point. The starter motor symptoms are:

1) Starter solenoid sticks on. Even when the engine is running the starter stays turning over. This was not a van electrics issue as it was proved on a bench.

2) Starter made a funny noise when turning the engine over (a bit of a whine)

3) Starter turned over like it had a flat battery, then stopped. Solenoid still clicked when the switch was turned over. At this point i got out the spare (and im glad i carry one

)

Point 1) happened on the previous starter (which i took back for a replacement just before the warranty ran out).

Thanks

Ringo

Post by **Titus A Duxass** » 14 Jul 2008, 13:56

It sounds like something is out of line mechanically.
Is the starter sitting properly in the mounting?

Post by **ringo** » 14 Jul 2008, 14:16

Titus A Duxass wrote:It sounds like something is out of line mechanically.
Is the starter sitting properly in the mounting?

To be honest, thats the first thing i though of. I have no idea how it could be out of alignment though.

Gear box is attached to the engine (only one way to do that), have got the original flywheel on, and the starter is flush to the bell housing.

Could i have been sold the wrong starter?

Ringo

Post by **airhead** » 14 Jul 2008, 14:45

Well if memory serves me, there is more than one version of the self supporting starter. One of them is used on the diesel vans, and another is on the automatic vans. The difference is the teeth on the bendix cause there is a different number of teeth on the drive gear on the auto and on the diesel engines. You'd want to check that out The best thing to do would be to compare the bendix gears on your starter versus another starter from a van that starts well.