Epilogue of a VEGE recon

[maxstu]

The vans back home. See link for a reminder of original post.

http://archive.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic ... highlight=

There's a lot of good to report. A tiny bit of bad. But thankfully, no ugly whatsoever.

After I had phoned the VEGE engine specialist/suppliers/fitters AUTOCENTRE ENGINEERING SERVICES to discuss the lack of power, poor fuel ecomony and sooty plugs, it was immediately agreed I would drop our T25, Poppit, back to their depot in DEPTFORD, on a thursday for a quick eyeball.

During this fleeting visit a double (taken twice then averaged, I suppose?) compression test on all four cylinders diagnosed lower than expected compression. Also, the oily wetness of both plugs on the right bank didn't bode well for the health of my less than 4k, nice, new recon engine, with 12 month warranty.

Adrian, the boss, subsequently and without any hesitation (fine Welshman wot he is....from the Gower Peninsular) booked in our van for the following monday and suggested I allow three days for replacing sleeves, pistons and rings. All under warranty. I made good the opportunity and asked if he would also repair two minor bits n bobs whilst in his care. Chargeable of course. Righto then, was his answer.

With respect, I made him fully aware of our impending trip to Spain, come April 23rd, and this hiccup had somewhat dented my confidence of a trouble free road trip. This is exactly why I paid a lot of money for a VEGE recon back in September. With fine humour (yet with a serious edge to it) Adrian suggested I should consider continental breakdown recovery. It did make me laugh. The art of British understatement at it's best. Priceless

Monday duly arrived and with somewhat a sorry heart, I left Poppit once more to go under the spanner . Will call for a progress report on weds then. Right! replied Adrian. But he did warn it might be longer than expected. Perhaps thursday. Definately friday. Okay I agreed. But really would care to collect friday morning and no later. I've got to work in the afternoon!

Before leaving on foot for the nearest DLR I enquired what could have caused this problem? He replied he really couldn't be certain until he had viewed the internals. Fair do's.

Wednesday dawned so I called. I got the reply I really didn't need to hear. More delays so please call friday afternoon to check again. On my motorbike I returned to their Depot to retrieve some door keys left in van. Poor ol Poppit up on jacks. Yet engine still in place? Oh well, we're all busy, I guess?

It's friday! Come on, come on...answer the bloomin' phone! Ah ha! Can I speak to Adrian please? The van will be ready at 4pm (but I'm at work then) but we really want to keeep it over the weekend to roadtest her before you collect on monday. Afterall, we are mindful of your trip abroad. Hhmmm. I'll let the reader make their own mind up on this one!

And due to family/work commitments (work/death of my uncle/mum flying to Aussie land/more work/sick puppy) I'm not able to collect until the following wednesday. Eight working days. Not all their fault I must say.

Finally (I hear you sigh ). Finally get to collect good ol' Poppit wednesday morning. And she's sporting new heads, pistons, rings, the lot. In fact everything that sticks out each side of the engine block.

Adrian talks me through what's been done under warranty and why the failure....
Apparently the carb was not set correctly and too much fuel was getting in to the cylinders. This in turn was washing the oil from the sleeve wall's and preventing the rings from correctly bedding in. Despite me covering nearly 4k the rings still had a very sharp edge to them and the barrels were suffering from glazing? (No mental picture for me on this one. Perhaps you can enlighten me?) I asked how to prevent this from reoccuring? He said the carb is now set spot on. The emissions are at just one (1.5 is allowable. me no comprendi?) and to try driving a tad faster!!!
It's a fine art.......wot driving? No British understatement, of course!
You really should have known.
By the way, no charge for the bit's n bob's
Would I recommend this company to other's? I'll wait until we return from Spain. Ole!!

[Hacksawbob]

Good write up, seems a case of the good old British Week Wednesdays, REALLY knobs me off when garages (in particular) mess you about with dates. I hope it runs well for you now.

[mrhutch]

great write up.... Sounds like you may have it cracked now, good luck for spain.


I have a mechanic mate who swears by running in a new engine "hard". he sent me this

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

the logic does make sense but I would be nevous doing it on a new engine!

[VWlewis]

Apparently the carb was not set correctly and too much fuel was getting in to the cylinders. This in turn was washing the oil from the sleeve wall's and preventing the rings from correctly bedding in. Despite me covering nearly 4k the rings still had a very sharp edge to them and the barrels were suffering from glazing? (No mental picture for me on this one. Perhaps you can enlighten me?) I asked how to prevent this from reoccuring? He said the carb is now set spot on. The emissions are at just one (1.5 is allowable. me no comprendi?) and to try driving a tad faster!!!

Hmm - seems an unusual diagnosis as what I recall about wear is that oil would slow down the wear ... so with less oil, I would have thought the rings would bed in faster - whether this is correctly is of course another matter.

Any engine experts out there with a view?

[ermie571]

Glad she's home....and that everything has been done for you! Seems like another new engine!


Regards
Emma

[maxstu]

Hi all,
and thanks for your support

Hacksaw..... I agree with your comments. As I wrote earlier, the estimated three days ended being eight! Six to them and two to me...as I was unable to collect van until wednesday.
It's a real shame they didn't offer to deliver. Now that would have been the icing on the good fairy cake and a service worthy of recording on this forum. So viewer's, also take into account distance from garage and delivery service offered before deciding who to use.
mrhutch..... Will do so. However, I noticed our van had clocked some thirty miles whilst in their possession I think ol Poppit's been run in for me
vwlewis..... I too wish one of our more learned members would enlighten me. I just love driving...not mechanically savvy whatsoever. Don't care to be neither. Despite racing motocross/enduro's for nearly 20 years.
Hi Em..... Really chomping on the bit to get going now! Spain's just a week and a bit away now and I've only covered 20 miles since collecting good ol Poppit.
Really peeved we missed last weeks bash in the snow. Now that's a true ice breaker for meeting new member's darn sarf.
Hopefully more meets soon...There's an averagely good campsite in St Nicholas at Wade. Not cheap though, but it's a cute village with two decent pubs just a couple of minutes walk from site. And ideal for Whitstable or Tankerton slopes???

[maxstu]

One more bit concerning getting a recon engine......

I feel I was offered a good service by Adrian and staff at AUTOCENTRE ENGINEERING SERVICES . They were always curteous and polite, understanding and informative. I felt confident I was in able hands too. Moreso, when I was given a short walk through the rebuild department at the service depot guided by Adrian. And the fact that there were five other T25 camper's parked up waiting surgery.

Basically, according to Adrian, my recon became a duffer because the carb was set incorrectly. And it was their responsibility. I had paid additional monies to overhaul carb when fitting the recon engine and had a receipt showing so.

Perhaps that should (maybe it was?) have been included anyway, and a duty of the fitters to prevent such a failure. Or to warn the customers about the general condition of their vans carb affecting running in procedures. Not to do is surely neglectful. Just as important as getting an oil and filter change after 500 miles? I dunno.

When a recon is fitted there's gotta be a line drawn somewhere. What's your responsibility and what becomes the fitters. Afterall, many old dirty bits will be going back on your nice shiny recon; get what's covered by warranty in writing if in doubt

So without any hesitation Adrian order the necessary replacements covered by the agreed warranty. There was no wrangling of hands or trying to shift blame. He didn't even request to see my warranty paper's despite the engine being fitted some while back (last september).

A very personal service indeed.

What I'm getting at is.....whoever you decide to use, make sure you fully understand whose responsible for what. Read the warranty carefully. Ask questions. Lots. If they're genuinely top fellows then they will be happy to answer your questions. Whether pertinent or dumb.

[DevonAid]

Yes, your report is detailed and excellent, we need more decent info on all our technical issues I reckon.
Will you be putting any more miles on her before Spain? Always worth a bit of bedding in before hitting the road in anger in foreign climes, and to check all the other attached bits are attached properly.
Many (and I mean many) years ago, I was involved in engine testing and development for a small independant engine testing facility. All engines have their quirks but it was obvious that oil consumption (which we monitored carfully from external sumps) plummeted as soon as you gave the engine a bit of 'welly', indicating the engine was bedding in. There's always a balance of starting off gently but it's all too easy to be too soft on a fresh engine and you can glaze the bores doing this. Increasing revs and loads fairly quickly was the order of the day. Never easy for the owner of a new and expensive rebuild for those of any mechanical sensitivity (or the apprentice of an engine testing facility) but commonly understood and proven.
Had quite a bit of fun at that place giving new and development engines some serious stick, but I don't miss the shift work one little bit.
Where about's in Spain are you heading for? We've got our Portsmouth to Bilbao ferry booked for May, and no other plan as of yet. Trust we both have a good time there. Muy bien!

[Laurie]

Good stuff. I don't believe the bit about the carb. Bore washing will cause excessive wear, not stop bedding in.

[maxstu]

Hi Laurie,
Yes, I see what you mean. A very valid point indeed.

If I missed something more technical I apologise. It's not my intention to mislead anyone nor put the knackers on the firm I used. Maybe his comments were an attempt to remove some blame and to defend his firm building a rogue recon engine. Afterall he did say I should try driving a tad faster.

As I've mentioned elsewhere on here mechanical/technical issues and I just don't mix. I could blow an area electrical grid network by just changing a simple lightbulb. So I go to work. I get paid. I want something. Then I pay someone else. The sound economics of a democracy. I'm happy (-ish in this case) and their happy.

However, through the hallowed pages of club 80-90, I intend to change a little. Especially with the help of the thoroughly knowledgeable wilki page.

Why, only today I managed to mount new electrics for the towbar. Woooooohoooo I hear you laugh. Nearly went t8ts up though. I began slicing through the outer casing to expose the wires of the rear lights at the wrong place! Stop! Think. Perhaps I should be barings wires for rear lights before it branches off to each lens. See what I mean? Now where that roll of black sticky stuff all good, honest electricians use.

Avoided a bloody sunday catastrophy using a stanley knife too.
I'm just stoked to be driving good ol Poppit once more

[maxstu]

Hi DevonAid,
Whereabout in SE London are you? A general area will do or PM me if you want to be more specific? My family is from Catford, Verdant lane/Brownhill rd way.

Gracias I usted por sus comentarios; see it's all coming together now

Will try to put some extra miles under Poppit's fanbelt before we travel. Maybe only a few hundred though. Too many other things to deal with before departure.

We're crossing from Plymouth (via a friend in Barnstaple) to Santander on 23 April. A good omen as it's St George's day, too. Obviously, it's more miles to Plymouth but less time at sea than the Portsmouth-Bilbao service. And the departure/arrival times are more suitable for our needs. I've done this crossing many times and found the service recommendable. Booking an overnight cabin is a prerequisite and quite romantic too.

No plan really. We're gonna meander our way through northern Spain, taking in the breathtaking scenery around the Picos and Pyrenees. You know, Tapas y vino rojo local por la tarde. Then back up to Calais over ten days. Visiting Potes and Pamplona will bring back some found and vivid memories of my misspent youth. Them Spanish bulls are big. Andorra, Pau, Millau bridge. Tulle. Who knows? Wherever we pop the top on Poppit is fine with me & Maxine.

Other member's here have also given sound advice regarding correct procedures for running in a rebuilt engine. Very much in line with your writings. As one sport said...run it in like you stole it I intend to give her a bit of welly now and then. A rev counter might be useful though.....

Will post this afresh in Tech Q & A's
Mine's a five speed gearbox and I'm running on standard wheels with newish tyres. Is there a club member who can give me the equivalent speedo readings for mid to just under peak revs (what's the max revs too?) for 3rd 4th and 5th gear on my 1.9 dg.... to help run in rebuild?

eg 3rd gear level road.. 2500-3500rpm equals 35-50 mph. I'm making this up so go with the flow. A generalisation is all I need. I want to get it right this time...

!Hasta luego!

[Grun]

maxstu,

Because I do not have a rev counter in my 2.1DJ (5 speed box), and the change in performance and quietness from my previous 1600 Bay was so marked, I worked out some road speeds from the VW drivers handbook that came with the van......

2nd gear Max torque is 18 MPH..... Max power is 30 MPH,
3rd gear Max torque is 30 MPH.......Max power is 50 MPH
4th gear Max torque is 40 MPH.......Max power is 70 MPH
5th gear Max torque is 50 MPH.......Max power is 90 MPH

DJ (according to Haynes) max POWER revs 4800, (DG 4600 rpm) and the torque figures are 200 rpm lower for the DG (@2600)

So, (if I have got this right ) 30 MPH in third gear equals 2800 rpm

My van has standard wheels and 185R14C tyres.

These are only approximate speed figures of course but may give you something to work on.

Mike

[maxstu]

Hi Grun,
Perfect! Exactly the kind of info I was expecting from this brilliant forum.
Never let's yer down.
Grun. Any places to wildcamp in Exmoor or nearby? Before going to Plymouth we intend to visit a friend in Barnstaple then find somewhere to park up for the night before heading south to catch ferry.
PM me if you come up with somewhere.
Thanks
Stuart