running in - how?

Post by **maxstu** » 28 Mar 2008, 20:43

Bloomin' hell, Em!
Looks like you and I have stirred up a right hornets nest with our engine woes and questions!

Let's hope all goes well for both of us!!!

Have a great weekend.

Post by **HarryMann** » 28 Mar 2008, 21:27

Wel this bloke thought 9 miles was well run-in...

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32158

and looked what happened

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 28 Mar 2008, 22:49

Drive it like you stole it.
Just drive it normally, this running in is all "Balls".
If owts gunna go wrong it's gunna do it when you fire it up, not if you go 1rpm over a suggested RPM limit.
Once it's got oil pressure and if everything has been built right there shouldn't be a problem.
baby it from new and it will always be a problematic engine, thash it from day one and it will always be a quick 'un.

Post by **wasserleaker** » 28 Mar 2008, 23:18

this advice was given to me by a friend who has been rebuilding engines for 20 or so years ,If its got new cam followers, or a new cam and followers (how likely or unlikely this is in an elite engine i wouldnt know) the first time its run the engine should be kept well above idle speed for 20 minutes, varying the revs, to work harden the cam and followers , doesn't need to be done in one continuous run, you may need to stop it to top up the coolant system a few times anyway, if this isnt done the life of these parts WILL be reduced. info on various websites about breaking in a cam backs this up if you want to double check on this. seems cruel to be revving it between 2500 and 4000 revs for this long, but theres no load on the engine and i'm assured it is important, as letting a new cam and followers idle will not do them any favours, as they're under most load at that speed.

Post by **HarryMann** » 29 Mar 2008, 01:14

to work harden the cam and followers

Perhaps a bit fanciful, being already case-hardened at least. Work hardening occurs by deformation, and the loads aren't doing that to a cam-face or follower, but rubbing... heavily.

The main problem with OHC is surely lack of enough lubrication up top, so don't idle OHC engines for long periods, set the idle speed as per specs, or slightly higher, and especially when new, don't sit there idling when oil cold at low revs. Warm up at about 2,000 rpm, not 900 i.e. drive it straight away.

the criteria for running in has always been local heat production, that's what has to be graded, so progressively longer periods at high load, irrespective of rpm, though the two are connected to some extent i.e. don't drag it up hills at full throttle and low rpm for very long, or force it into wind, go down a gear. But use plenty of power for increasingly longer periods, to get it fit to take higher pressures and temperatures internally.
Constant rpm driving at low throttle won't run it in...
Engines, tolerances, oils and metallurgy are quite different than they were 50 years ago.

But on the other hand, don't rev it after first starting until the oil light has gone out and you can hear the oil has got to top of engine, very obvious on some engines as they quieten down after about 2 ~ 3 seconds.

Post by **ermie571** » 29 Mar 2008, 07:16

stu...

ever get the feeling you wish you hadn't asked.....I kinda expected this debate though.

Think I will be driving mainly normally....to get to work...steep uphill section, gentle flat section, easy fast down hill section, short motorway section, poodle into industrial estate section.

Think that covers it all!

Em

seriously guys - thanks again for the discussion. All read, and some understood!

Post by **maxstu** » 29 Mar 2008, 08:54

Hi Emma,
Too right

But that's the whole point of a kindred spirited forum. Let the very helpful great unwashed air their views, then sieve out what you believe are the valid points.
90% is genuine concern for fellow VW owner's. And without doubt there are some very sharp minded souls on here. And I'm learning loads thanks to them.
From Mr Baxter...

Drive it like you stole it.

How did he know that one??!!

The remaining 10%?.....well there's got to be some levity for us hard pressed citizens. Take it with a (big) pinch of salt and laugh along.
It'll make them feel better.

Post by **HarryMann** » 29 Mar 2008, 11:03

Drive it like you stole it.

Hehe, then you'll get a nice photograhic record of your first journey in the post two weeks later - accompanied by a payment invoice

Post by **wasserleaker** » 29 Mar 2008, 12:03

HarryMann wrote:
Drive it like you stole it.

Hehe, then you'll get a nice photograhic record of your first journey in the post two weeks later - accompanied by a payment invoice

like it!
its a right job bashing the dents out from ramming police cars out of your way too, not to mention sorting out the fire damage after torching it on a dodgy estate!

Post by **andysimpson** » 29 Mar 2008, 20:04

HarryMann wrote:
to work harden the cam and followers

Perhaps a bit fanciful, being already case-hardened at least. Work hardening occurs by deformation, and the loads aren't doing that to a cam-face or follower, but rubbing... heavily.

The main problem with OHC is surely lack of enough lubrication up top, so don't idle OHC engines for long periods, set the idle speed as per specs, or slightly higher, and especially when new, don't sit there idling when oil cold at low revs. Warm up at about 2,000 rpm, not 900 i.e. drive it straight away.

the criteria for running in has always been local heat production, that's what has to be graded, so progressively longer periods at high load, irrespective of rpm, though the two are connected to some extent i.e. don't drag it up hills at full throttle and low rpm for very long, or force it into wind, go down a gear. But use plenty of power for increasingly longer periods, to get it fit to take higher pressures and temperatures internally.
Constant rpm driving at low throttle won't run it in...
Engines, tolerances, oils and metallurgy are quite different than they were 50 years ago.

But on the other hand, don't rev it after first starting until the oil light has gone out and you can hear the oil has got to top of engine, very obvious on some engines as they quieten down after about 2 ~ 3 seconds.

This is only an issue for vw flat engines. I think its to encourage lifters to start turning, they seem prone to sticking in one place and then wear quickly.

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:04

andysimpson wrote:
toomanytoys wrote:Like Andy says.. dont baby it but dont full throttle it either.. not at least for 300 thrn for only a few seconds at a time at 3000+...

VW were run at maximum revs for 3 minutes, not suren if they still do it, because it meens 3 minutes longer to build car

I used to rebuild type2's for a living and initial start up was a good five minutes at 2000-3000 revs then a check of everything. Best way to do it is drive as if fuel was over a £1 a litre - as now. Gentle acceleration but keep with the traffic.