Recon vege playing up!?

Post by **maxstu** » 25 Mar 2008, 22:31

As arranged last week I took my van back to engine suppliers and fitter's because of the aforementioned problems after just 5 month and 3.5k.
As soon as I'd parked the head honcho came over with a mechanic. Both were their usual friendly and approachable selves.
Good start

They asked a few questions....oil/fuel consumption? Poor to both. What type of driving do I do? Sitting down with hands on steering wheel

I mean mostly to the coast and back covering about 150 miles a week (but my concern is we are off to Northern Spain and France in just four weeks time!!) or locally. How the engine generally performed . Smooth but not as powerful as expected .
They then checked out the breather pipe from oil tower to carb (not collasped). All the airways in filter box and top of carb for excessive oil. None. Just as Laurie said for me to do on here...thanks again, Laurie. I'm learning a lot about T25's

Then they removed all sparkplugs and did a compression test on all barrels twice over for average readings and removed themselves to the office while I waited with with a free coffee. Couple of minutes passed and Head Honcho says that in fact both banks are down on compression!

And his impression is that the piston rings have not bedded in correctly. Hence poor fuel consumption and lack of power. And he cannot speculate the reasons why until he's viewed them. Fair do's.
I personally am happy with my treatment so far and I feel quite confident these guys are offering a truly good service. Afterall, these things can happen (but why always to me?!).
Luckily, I'm in a strong position. I got them to do the 500 miler oil and filter change. I also got them to remove, refurbish and set up the carb correctly. And all waterways, pipes, etc that didn't come with the recon unit were also replaced by them. So it's down to them to give customer satisfaction.
So, under warranty, they intend to drop engine and replace pistons, rings and liners. All booked for next Monday. Have I missed anthing?
If not, stay tuned (pun) for the next instalment.
Thanks

Post by **ermie571** » 25 Mar 2008, 22:45

Try and get the 12 month warranty on the new parts, and the labour to fit them....not sure how much joy you will have, though.

Em
x

Post by **maxstu** » 25 Mar 2008, 23:00

Hi Em,

Try and get the 12 month warranty on the new parts, and the labour to fit them....not sure how much joy you will have, though.

Good point!
Will press for extended warranty.

Cheers
Stuart

Post by **ermie571** » 26 Mar 2008, 09:02

Don't think you will get extended warrenty for the whole engine....but do some research (try trading standards or CAB) coz I think that you should get 12 months on the new bits (put it this way.....what does it say about their confidence in both the part and their ability to fit correctly if they won't??)

If you were having this done out of warrenty, you would expect those parts to be guaranteed for 12 months....so why should it be any different just because they have failed in the initial warrenty period?

Make absolutely sure that you get a dated repair note showing
1) the date!
2) the parts replaced
3) the cost as 0.00 as done under warrenty

(this would then be the evidence for a further 12 months on the parts replaced)

take care
Emma

Post by **toomanytoys** » 26 Mar 2008, 09:48

rings not bedded in is down to being too gentle running in.. (there could be materials and biuld factor) there is a fine balance of not enough load..
engines need to have some load on them to seat the rings and bed them in.. the occasional full throttle (not at low rpm) and a few extra rpm can help break the glaze while running in, but once its formed its difficult to remove without wechanical means...

Post by **maxstu** » 26 Mar 2008, 13:27

Hi Emma,

As you say......

Make absolutely sure that you get a dated repair note showing
1) the date!
2) the parts replaced
3) the cost as 0.00 as done under warrenty

Very valued point. Will do as suggested.

Hi toomanytoys,

In much agreement with your comments below......

rings not bedded in is down to being too gentle running in.. (there could be materials and biuld factor) there is a fine balance of not enough load..

As someone who raced motorcycles (and not one engine failure) for twenty years I'm in total agreement with your comments. I varied the load regularly.
My personal view is an engine is just like the human body. Fed correctly, warmed gently and stretched now and then for best peak performance. There's been plenty of careful revving when needed. I'm sure Emma knows Detling Hill. Been up and down it about 15 times since recon fitted, making sure not too over rev and selecting correct gear.
Thanks all. Wll keep you posted.
Stuart

Post by **Laurie** » 26 Mar 2008, 20:26

Let's put it like this. I have never seen rings not bed in. Onb new or deglazed cylinders. Running a synthetic oil from new could cause the problem, but very rarely. You have not caused this fault.

I think you should trust them to find out what is happening when they strip it and be glad that they are honourable dealers.

Extending the warranty for another 12 months isn't something I would do, bearing in mind my VW dealership experience where after 12 months, even on a known weakness, you'd only get a goodwill allowance from VW for anything.

As it is, re-conditioned or rebuilt engines have parts in them that are not new and people have to make judgement calls, most of which are correct.

The company that you are dealing with is doing what it should do.

Post by **andysimpson** » 26 Mar 2008, 20:32

Laurie wrote:Let's put it like this. I have never seen rings not bed in. Onb new or deglazed cylinders. Running a synthetic oil from new could cause the problem, but very rarely. You have not caused this fault.

Rings not bedding in is a common problem on vw pd tdi's, they need driving hard from new. Its always the coffin dodgers that seem to have the problems.

Post by **ermie571** » 26 Mar 2008, 21:48

Laurie,
if you replaced parts, would you seriously not warrent the replacements for 12 months? Sorry if given duff advice, but would have thought if the original came with twelve month, then the replacement should also have 12 months. (not meaning to cause offence in any way!

)

Its like the battery from halfrauds....failed 2 years into the 3 year warrenty...came with a brand new three year warrenty.

Suart - I would still get that "receipt" for work done, though. If only for the maintenance history of the van! But that's just me. Like Laurie says - it looks as if the firm are wanting to assist as much as possible!

and yes, detling is a lovely long drag.......I avoid it like the plague! Its one of those hunched over the steering wheels, rocking, saying come on baby, you can do it...nearly at the top....

Emma

Post by **maxstu** » 26 Mar 2008, 22:30

Hi all,
And thanks for your supporting comments.
I believe the supplier's are doing the necessary, without any bullsh8t, and am happy with their comments to date. Will wait for next weeks mechanical autopsy.
We've got about four weeks to go before heading to Plymouth for the Santander crossing to Northern Spain. And as mentioned above, the vans' going in next monday for three days!
I would have preferred to see a few thousands miles on the clock and everything nicely bedded in prior our great adventure. But here we are, getting new pistons, rings and sleeves under warranty and not a lot of time to run her in beforehand.
If I don't get time to pile on the miles I guess the 250 miler to Plymouth should help out. I'll get the VEGE engine suppliers/fitters to supply an extra oil filter and suitable amount of oil and do a change when we get to Spain.
I only hope she's gonna behave in the Pico's, Pyrenee's and Andorra!! Then the long haul through France to Calais.

Am I asking too much from a new recon unit? There's some mighty mountains to climb.
Quote from Andy Simpson...

Rings not bedding in is a common problem on vw pd tdi's, they need driving hard from new. Its always the coffin dodgers that seem to have the problems.

Not sure what that's about....it's a petrol T25 not a vw pd tdi and I can assure you I'm no coffin dodger. I've got the scars to show :run

Em and Laurie...you both have valid points. Will talk with the suppliers and hopefully come to an amicable agreement. Sometimes you have to let their integrity shine through without asking all to be written down. As long as dates and what was supplied & fitted are recorded, I'm sure they will honour their side of the agreement. Forever the optimist me.
Thanks
Stuart

Post by **toomanytoys** » 26 Mar 2008, 22:37

Id be tempted to do the oil change before spain... its a bloody long way..... I am about half way and its 450 miles to mine from Calais......

PM me when you are going.. maybe I am about and can do the oil and filter and give it a once over for you...

Post by **'hanish-boy** » 26 Mar 2008, 22:50

I'm sure I'm not the only reader here benefitting from your experience (and the postings in this thread) so I'd just like to wish you a very safe and enjoyable trip, when it comes.
I hope to take my newly acquired 1982 2.0L T25 on a similar tour one day.

Bon voyage!

Post by **maxstu** » 26 Mar 2008, 22:58

Alright toomanytoys....is it Simon?
Not sure whereabouts in France you reside but that's a mighty kind offer.
Got a route kind of planned. After Spain and Andorra onwards to Pau and the very, very big bridge (Millau?) Back onto the Atlantic coast then getting lost around Orador sur Glane and lots of other interested places ending in ac.
Steadily heading north to Quimper then visiting more friends in Beauranville? near Le Touquet. Can we fit you in ?!!!

True, I would have preferred to get the 500 miler behind me before heading off in to the blue yonder. C'est la vie, mon ami!
Cheers
Stuart

Post by **maxstu** » 26 Mar 2008, 23:03

Hi hanish,
Thanks for your very kind remarks. I'm sure your time will come. I mean with the traveling...not the engine prob

Cheers
Stuart

Post by **'hanish-boy** » 26 Mar 2008, 23:15

I think the probs could be here already!