Alternative power-plants and transplants (GTi, Porsche, Subaru, Audi, diesel etc). Discussion and Q&A last answered over 2 years ago.
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toomanytoys wrote:Fitting a TDi has never been about "paying for itself"...... if going from a petrol to TDi then it will save more.. but an LPG conversion is a much better "pay for itself" idea...
A TDi is about long term ownership and use..
Its also a free country (last time I looked) and if someone really wants to spend 12000 euro for a jaeger conversion... so be it... (I wouldnt) but really, you dont have to go to Germany to get it done... and it will be cheaper...
So you havent been on the GoWesty site lately... seen how much they charge for a syncro westy in the good old US of A...
I've worked out the numbers as well in USD and realized it would 6-10 years to pay-off just the engine conversion even if I went to SVO and got my recyled cooking oil for free. That's w/o considering any transmission work. At the end of the day, a petrol fueled engine swap is just as satisfying and much less expensive even over 10 years of ownership. Keep in mind that in the US, you not only save money on fuel costs but also on petrol-power related expenses such as biennial emmissions inspections.
As for what GoWesty gets for their vehicles, you need to see what they are actually selling. I've seen more than a couple of GW sold vehicles. Their prices are not unreasonably higher than what most T25 specialists get here. The higher price comes from labor and parts cost that they tack on to the vehicle. In one example, I saw them charged X% over their acquisition for the vehicle. Then there was a laundry list of work charged to recondition and repair. The total purchase price plus commission was less than the resto cost. In all fairness, they do a better job than average repair/restoration shop. They also charge more per hour than the average shop. The other factor to consider is the niche market they sell their products is targetted the affluent T25 buyer who typically not able to do any of the modification work themselves.
As for T4's being comparable to T25's well they are not comparable. I've owned over 30 T3's (T25's). Have driven about dozen T4's. My preference is for the T3 based on other than practicality. The T25 tugs at me on a different level. It's difficult to explain if you do not have that sense of attachment. The T4 on the otherhand just feels like an appliance to me. I might as well drve a Toyota van at that. Sure the manual transmission models are competent enough for street use but auto trans blow transmissions all day long. Take one off-road and the darn things don't have enough ground clearance.
Not sure about the T5 since I've never owned let alone driven one. I suspect it's not much different from a T4 since it supposedly a reclothed version of it.
Yeah, Ben, I realise GW do a lot of stuff to them.. I wasnt critising that.. it was more an example of what someone is willing to pay for a sorted bus...
Never made a comment about T4's, only driven 1.. my mates new (5 years ago) 2.5 TDi 88... nice, but not the character...
I see your points. There is something about a well sorted T3. If I had a Syncro, which I used for proper off road fun at the weekends then yes a TDI would almost certainly be NECESSARY let alone desirable. I imagine you would need the power to climb the sorts of hills as I have seen on U-Tube!
However for road use I just don't see it, and I think there is a danger that people will enter into this conversion thinking that it will add loads of value to their van. It won't. All it will do is make your van sell quicker should you want to flog it.
If you intend to keep your van forever then it could be worth it I suppose, but we all say that don't we? Circumstances change.
Then again maybe I'm being too practical and owning a T3 is just about how it makes you feel when you drive it and the pleasure it brings going camping and to shows with your mates. I do understand.
Being cleverer than you look is better than looking cleverer than you are.
toomanytoys wrote:Yeah, Ben, I realise GW do a lot of stuff to them.. I wasnt critising that.. it was more an example of what someone is willing to pay for a sorted bus...
Never made a comment about T4's, only driven 1.. my mates new (5 years ago) 2.5 TDi 88... nice, but not the character...
I didn't think you were being critical at all. I just wanted to make a point that the prices they were getting was not actually for the vehicle. In other words, the advertised sold price is technically misleading. Of course, that is the what the customer paid. On paper the customer is presented a different picture.
T3 Atlantic wrote:I see your points. There is something about a well sorted T3. If I had a Syncro, which I used for proper off road fun at the weekends then yes a TDI would almost certainly be NECESSARY let alone desirable. I imagine you would need the power to climb the sorts of hills as I have seen on U-Tube!
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The wbx climb some pretty steep stuff too you know.. even a 1.9 dg like mine.. I have been all the places the TD/TDi's have been when I have been out with the French club...
A TDI deffinetly will take u further than a waterboxer or a TD but its also down to the driver.(off road)
The main difference is low torque.The TDI hits full torque at 1800rpm and holds it till about 3400rpm.At this it is a pleasure off road because of its ability to crawl over very difficult obstacles with full controle at very slow speeds(crawling)and when u need it u just touch the pedall and it responds almost effortlessly.
In sand it wins hands down over other engines.
If i had a 2WD ide TDI it as well for driving pleashue but then i do all the labour myself.
Russel
i will second the time bomb theory i have a tweeked tdi running a Aircooled box ive already cracked a head on 1 engine and destroyed a piston in another. engine number 3 will be getting an easyer life untill i can afford the proper box from aidan talbot
my tdi 1Z is running an AAS box with a 0.74 5th from H.A projekt,and its about right.any higher (0.70/0.69!)and I think the bigger hills would be swamping the engine.And thats with a chargecooler and 110 injectors.
It drives like a quick modern van,as the first 4 gears are stock.5th is almost overdrive like.
anything french never seems to make a lot of engineering sense....my girlfriends xu9 diesel is a fair example and thats a "good" engine.Sorry but a vw van with a french achilles heel....never seen the point myself!
JustSharon wrote:Basically, as I see it the scrapyards are full of peugeot/citroen cars and engines are plenty.
VW engines are scarce and well sort of.
