VC options

Syncro 4&4 Discussion and Q&A last answered over 2 years ago.
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type2nut2
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Post by type2nut2 »

Clive that is a very interesting proposition.

I have read the following article only once, and don't yet understand it :roll:
but will keep reading until I do:

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/EC-P ... ticle.html

I've always thought there will be another option for us one day.

Any other links to help me understand this would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Andy.
1990 Caravelle GL Syncro.
2003 SOHC EJ25
Petrol/ Injected LPG.

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toomanytoys
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Post by toomanytoys »

:lol: :lol: :lol: see told you....

Can O worms..

VC does give permenant 4wd.. thats the point of it.. there is always "some" drive through it (ever tried 1 wheel off the deck and tried to turn it?)
it just doesnt give 100 % locked...

Yeah clive a "Torsen" would be great in the middle.. and lockable, so best of both worlds...

Seen a five pot syncro in "road clothes"... apparently gave a few BMW/Merc etc drivers a shock/run for there money in the twisties...

I also think that its surprising what traction a syncro "finds".. I have a little "test track" in my field.. its surprising how it keeps finding traction on slippery stuff with the difflocks off.. the 2wd 'velle wouldnt even get close... I know.. I have got it stuck on some simple stuff several times.... :lol: :lol:

We want slightly different things from our vehicles.. so its expected that we favour different things..
Summary!!!
1. If you drive on the road and in crappy road conditions, the VC makes it simple.. accept that it will need changing at some point...

2. If you "expedition"/extreme off road etc, then the deco and solid makes a lot of sense.

3. If you want a bit of both then the "sport" VC and deco give the advantages.. (dont think it would be quite as good as a "Torsen" type diff though... but then I cant get my head round how those bloomin work!!!)

Never driven a deco
I have seen the deco in action as several have them in the french club, some with solid shafts others with tight VC.. and often the "solid boys dont engage it as the surface is just a bit too grippy and then for a moment lose traction and have to have a second attempt.. where I can just keep going..

This one will run and run I am sure... :lol: :lol: :lol:

But lets not fall out over it :wink: :wink: :wink: "Horses for courses" and all that!!

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peasant
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Post by peasant »

airhead wrote:OH the full story with the NCT centre was that I told both the person booking the car in in reception that it was ful time 4wd and I told the tester when he took the keys from me. He brought it through all the tests, but on the rolling road, he only tested the front axle and took the van off before the test was complete. I know this cause I watched the test being conducted. Anyway I tested my VC to see if it was damaged, which it was, and rang the NCT centre, who outrightly denied that the van was conducted in this manner cause the tester denied doing it and the computer system didnt show results from the rolling road (but this is because the test was not completed and in the end they used a decelerometer). So they wanted me to get a mechanics report to prove that they damaged it (which would cost me a fortune) and I know Id en up just having to take them to court. So feck that. I called my insurance company and they said that they should be able to pay out for the damage and recoup the expenses from the NCTs insurance, without me losing my no claims bonus.


How experiences differ ...

When I took mine to the NCT, I also told everyone and they said not to worry, they'd use the decelerometer, which they did. They even drove around the rolling road grooves :D

But on top of that, as soon as the Syncro rolled into the test center, everything came to a halt and every single tester had a good nosey around all the nooks and crannies and when I asked them nicely, they even cast aside insurance guidelines and let me in to have a good look around while it was on the ramp (this was my first opportunity of seeing it on a ramp).
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airhead
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Post by airhead »

yeah well the tester who did mine was looking around the front trying to figure out how to open the bloody bonnet!! Its a bloody T25! Anyway aftr he asked me how to open the bonnet I went around the back and did just that. The man was a moron.
Ross

1987 1.9td Leisuredrive camper.

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Andy syncro-nutz
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Post by Andy syncro-nutz »

Simon Baxter wrote:
Andy syncro-nutz wrote:Here'a thought!

The most undeniable truth! Death! You eather are or arent deed! So VC or decoupler! You eather do or dont. How simple is that? :D

Have you been drinking?
:lol:
I think there must be some sort of language barrier here as your not making much sense!
:lol:
Normally, it's McGill I can't understand, but thats when I talk to him, but yours is written in text, and I must to admit to wonder, "what the f**k is he on about?!"
:shock:

Step away from the hand bag dude! If you dont undrstand it, dont judge it! And refreine from passing insults on an open forum and more so when my dear friend McGill is not here :x
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syncropaddy
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Post by syncropaddy »

A little story on 4wd ........

I have 3 cars sitting on my drive way. A 170 BHP TDi Passat, a 130 TDi 4motion Passat and a 300 SE Merc. I live high up in the Wicklow mountains south of Dublin. We experience some of the worst roads and weather in the country. I cover 60,000 miles a year and have done for nearly 30 years and the only time I could do with 4wd is when we get 6 inches of snow or more which does not happen too often - unfortunately!!

Someone on this forum said that theirs (T25) would be dangerous in the wet if it wasnt 4wd!! What absolute rubbish!! That means that ALL 2wd T25s are dangerous in the wet !!!!!!!!

If you know how to drive properly, and within reasonable legal limits, you can go just as far, just as quickly, just as safely with 2wd as with 4wd. If anyone does not believe me get your a*** over here and Ill prove it to you on the roads around here.

On a vehicle as slow as a T25 Syncro on normal roads, I doubt if it ever kicks into 4wd unless on a seriously greasy roundabout or snow and ice perhaps. You might like to think it goes into 4wd but ask yourself this - how do you know and could you proove it does if you had to? Yeah you have all had that experience where if you didnt have four wheel drive you would have had a crash, but did the 4wd engage? Can you proove it did? It takes time for the VC to allow engagement and its most likely that you are well past the stuff you thought you would need 4wd for in the first place. The only way I can tell the 4wd kicks in on my son's 4motion is by way of a dash light and you really need to be giving it the welly.......

4wd for towing and off road is certainly the job and if you do a lot of both in addition to a large amount of normal road miles then a decoupler is a good idea with a VC. If you cover a lot of road miles and a bit of agressive off road then I agree with Russel - get a decoupler with a solid shaft.

Then of course there is this...... if you want to buy a 'sport VC' and a decoupler then go and buy one of each and it will keep your 'happy juices' flowing and its something to talk about in the pub. Remember neither will break the laws of physics and if your tyres are shoite then whats the point cuz you wheels will be spinning anyway !!!
syncropaddy


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toomanytoys
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Post by toomanytoys »

Mmm..
The vc isnt totaly free of friction is it?.. so thereofre there will be some drive.. a roundabout will encourage (front to rearwheel speed differential) more "vc" therefore more traction..?
my 2wd velle will break traction really easy and its orrible in the snow/slippy conditions..
The doka on the other hand generally doesnt spin a wheel.. (when the prop is on) or if it does a tiny bit.. it soon comes into line... but I do have a tight vc...
I have driven it a lot with the prop off.. if it didnt have a diff lock on the rear it too would get stuck easy peasy.. in "2wd" it also spins a wheel on wet/greasy roundabouts if pushed... not so wit the prop on...

Some merit for a sport vc and a decoupler there then :wink:

I think SB was taking the pee, rather than being nasty... he is fron Udderfield you know :lol: :lol: :lol: and I am sure Ian will give him as good when he is about.... :lol: :lol:

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Post by Simon Baxter »

toomanytoys wrote:Mmm..


I think SB was taking the pee, rather than being nasty... he is fron Udderfield you know :lol: :lol: :lol: and I am sure Ian will give him as good when he is about.... :lol: :lol:

What he said! ^^

Check the smilies dude!
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andysimpson
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Post by andysimpson »

syncropaddy wrote:A little story on 4wd ........

I have 3 cars sitting on my drive way. A 170 BHP TDi Passat, a 130 TDi 4motion Passat and a 300 SE Merc. I live high up in the Wicklow mountains south of Dublin. We experience some of the worst roads and weather in the country. I cover 60,000 miles a year and have done for nearly 30 years and the only time I could do with 4wd is when we get 6 inches of snow or more which does not happen too often - unfortunately!!

Someone on this forum said that theirs (T25) would be dangerous in the wet if it wasnt 4wd!! What absolute rubbish!! That means that ALL 2wd T25s are dangerous in the wet !!!!!!!!

If you know how to drive properly, and within reasonable legal limits, you can go just as far, just as quickly, just as safely with 2wd as with 4wd. If anyone does not believe me get your a*** over here and Ill prove it to you on the roads around here.

On a vehicle as slow as a T25 Syncro on normal roads, I doubt if it ever kicks into 4wd unless on a seriously greasy roundabout or snow and ice perhaps. You might like to think it goes into 4wd but ask yourself this - how do you know and could you proove it does if you had to? Yeah you have all had that experience where if you didnt have four wheel drive you would have had a crash, but did the 4wd engage? Can you proove it did? It takes time for the VC to allow engagement and its most likely that you are well past the stuff you thought you would need 4wd for in the first place. The only way I can tell the 4wd kicks in on my son's 4motion is by way of a dash light and you really need to be giving it the welly.......

4wd for towing and off road is certainly the job and if you do a lot of both in addition to a large amount of normal road miles then a decoupler is a good idea with a VC. If you cover a lot of road miles and a bit of agressive off road then I agree with Russel - get a decoupler with a solid shaft.

Then of course there is this...... if you want to buy a 'sport VC' and a decoupler then go and buy one of each and it will keep your 'happy juices' flowing and its something to talk about in the pub. Remember neither will break the laws of physics and if your tyres are shoite then whats the point cuz you wheels will be spinning anyway !!!

Driving a syncro 2wd is very different than a normal t25 which is lower and normally with better tyres for roads.

Mine does send plenty of drive to front in the wet, it will spins its front wheels fairly easy on mud terrains on wet roads so yes that to me would make it dangerous in 2wd.

There are no lights on 4 motions to tell you its gone into 4wd, the flashing light is the traction control/ESP so even the 4wd can not put the power down.

89syncrolee
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de coupler

Post by 89syncrolee »

hi i also think i am going down de coupler route as my vc is tight could we get a discount if we bought a few...
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Andy syncro-nutz
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Post by Andy syncro-nutz »

Does anybody know anything about Akerman's Princible?

This can o worms is gettin repetative! Still not had a drink (Yet)...
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Post by Simon Baxter »

Yes, I spent years at collage too.

Ackermans principle is very dull and something most of us don't need to concern ourselves about as we have very little control over it as it's factory set and I can't see many (if any) syncro owners altering the angle of ther track arms or their wheelbase.

We had to do all sorts of mad calculations and drawings about that, locus of a point and all that polarva.

I suppose, you could alter it swapping between PAS and non PAS hub assemblies, but, to be fair, whats the point.
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Andy syncro-nutz
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Post by Andy syncro-nutz »

Dull?? We cant drive with out it! All those people skiding of roundabouts it would be traffic kaos :D
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Post by Simon Baxter »

We can't drive without it, but we can't do nob with it either!
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Andy syncro-nutz
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Post by Andy syncro-nutz »

Yeah! But mabe we just have done somthing with it! That old can o worms VC or decoupler! :) Oh and thax for your agrement on it :D
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