Fuel filter water heater diesel question

Post by **camper** » 01 Oct 2007, 15:36

I have seen a bio fuel filter heater the type which the hot coolent from the engine is passed through and keeps the veg oil viscous for the pump.If ordinary diesel was heated by the filter would it have any effect on it to run the engine.

Post by **HarryMann** » 01 Oct 2007, 23:28

Not really....is heated anyway in some filters by return flow to tank.

Post by **camper** » 02 Oct 2007, 03:14

Okay so does this mean i can run the end the engine on vegetable oil to lower viscousity or forcourt pump diesel at aprox temp 90c in the heated filter before the pump?.Only i read some where that heated diesel at 90c destroys engines.

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Oct 2007, 12:49

90C, wasn't thinking that hot after quickly running through a fuel heater..

better take better advice

Post by **camper** » 02 Oct 2007, 15:01

Thanks for the reply i would agree it runs through the fuel filter quickly.I want to run on super market supplied vegi oil and have the option to use forcourt diesel in the vehicle fuel tank .Ive been looking at options to heat up the vegi oil in the fuel filter.There is a 12volt and coolent combined fuel filter heater that heats on turning ignition on and cuts off when coolent reaches temp through the filter.If fitted it would have a constant hot supply of coolent keeping the fuel hot.I dont think it would be 90c. It shouldnt effect the engine as after all the pump and pipes&injectors that normaly supply diesel to the engine are really hot when the engine has reached normal running temp.The fuel filter i carnt imagine would get that hot heated.

Post by **just_vegin** » 02 Oct 2007, 18:28

It's OK to run the diesel through the heated filter. Years of testing has shown that the loss of lubrication is not an issue for the pump.

You need to bear in mind that if it is a standard heated filter will have a thermostat in it to shut down the flow of water to the filter unit when the temperature warms up. This ought to be removed.

Also, the fuel probably won't get hot enough from a standard heated filter unless it is one with a proper water based heat exchanger between the filter head and the filter (known as an eckes WT). If it is not an Eckes then you ought to use a heat exchanger as well as the filter.

Lastly the electric heating on this is not really necessary since it won't allow you to run on vegoil from cold. If it does manage to warm the filter a bit, it will loosen contents of the filter up at best, but there will still be cold fuel in the pump and injectors. When you eventually get the engine started and the smoke has cleared, the warmed fuel will be cold again within moments of reaching the injector pump. if it is a single tank solution you want to achieve, then you need upgraded glow plugs and injector nozzles to deal with this cold vegoil, otherwise you stand the risk of breaking the pump due to poor lubrication. Another option is to fit a valve and start up on diesel - the twin tank solution which is known to be very reliable...

Mike

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Oct 2007, 18:41

Yes, I've heard there are solutions to staright vegoil and then there are 'solutions'...
I'd probably not go for solutions and after all, isn't using staright vegoil quite environmentally unfriendly. Carting all that stuff in cans about, having it dleivered to supermarches in the first place then doinga trip to pick it up, the tins themsleves and the logistics of it all?

It just seems a helluva lot of hassle - and for what?

IMHO of course

Post by **just_vegin** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:10

I prefer the option which is far better for the environment - to filter used cooking oil from your local pub, canteen etc. I find it much easier than buying bottles or tins of new oil would be.

Post by **andysimpson** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:12

HarryMann wrote:
It just seems a helluva lot of hassle - and for what?

To break the pump.

The only differnece warm diesel will make is a loss of performance.

Post by **just_vegin** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:41

Nooooo. that's the whole point...

you don't do anything mods, you break the pump.

you do a couple of small mods it runs as reliably as it does on diesel - ie no broken pumps or any other damage. same performance and consuption etc and no fuel hose rotting as other posts seem to suggest (that would be biodiesel or cutting with methanol or kerosene for example)

there is very little thermal expension in diesel so warm diesel/cold diesel = same performance, however, fit a twin tank kit properly and there is no diesel warming at all. The above was an answer to a specific question I don't actually warm my diesel but the smartveg kits do.

Mike

Post by **andysimpson** » 02 Oct 2007, 20:12

just_vegin wrote:
there is very little thermal expension in diesel so warm diesel/cold diesel = same performance, however, fit a twin tank kit properly and there is no diesel warming at all. The above was an answer to a specific question I don't actually warm my diesel but the smartveg kits do.

Mike

Why do the VW group spend alot of money on fancy fuel cooling systems then?

I can feel the difference with my diesel after i fuel up.

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Oct 2007, 21:36

Its viscosity that this is all about I suppose.

But if they do spend a lot on fuel coolers, then cool and thin is better performance wise if a lot of fuel is being injected. If not much, then any cooling effect or density effect would be pretty minimal, compared to the huge quantities of air a turb-diesel is consuming most of the time.

Post by **just_vegin** » 02 Oct 2007, 23:02

The fuel coolers are on the PD engines after the pump... the pressures in the fuel system are seriously high and as a result the fuel gets extremely hot and it needs cooling before being returned to the tank.

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Oct 2007, 23:22

Aha, so that keeps tank temps down.

Post by **camper** » 03 Oct 2007, 06:52

Another heated filter that can be used is known as an Eckes WT after the original designer Eckhard Wernick. It is fabricated by using a customised bolt to insert a VW oil cooler between a standard filter head and the spin on filter cartridge. Since the VW style oil coolers are so easily found at scrap yards, this is an ideal and cheap solution. Just vegin you said a eckes WT) this then was a homebrew solution then as discribed above from the bio deisel website.I had this in mind to make up a heater for the fuel filter as i have a spare oil heat exchanger.You said I don't actually warm my diesel but the smartveg kits do. So if you filter used cooking you need to process it using sodium hydroxide & methonal .The fuel that is made from the used cooking oil then goes into the vehicle tank .Are you saying you use no heat exchangers between the tank and the pump .You only need to fit upgraded fuel injectors & glow plugs + pump timing.No other mods are needed for your vehicle.Is this a T25 1.6/1.9 diesel ?.