Air v Water Cooled

[T3_Dreaming]

(repost from brick yard!)
I'd prefer a water cooled engine as I assume they're better (reliability/performance) but is this true? What are peoples experience of the engines? Whats generally the pro's /cons with them. I guess I'm thinking the early 2.0 air cooled to the newer 1.9 petrols.

Also can you convert a air cooled to water. Thinks about problem with front grill etc.

Any details appreciated.

[geordie skydiver]

Air cooled is more reliable (IMHO) but can be lacking in power if the engine is tired. Nice and simple though.

Water cooled flat fours have a slight rep for being unreliable (leaky water jackets etc)

1.6 and 1.6TD's are ok if not thrashed. Stick a 1.9TD in and be very happy.

I've blown up one of each except the 2.1 petrol. I'm lacking in mechanical sympathy though...

I would get a 1.6NA or TD and convert to 1.9TD.

[sixsprings]

(repost from brick yard!)
I'd prefer a water cooled engine as I assume they're better (reliability/performance) but is this true? What are peoples experience of the engines? Whats generally the pro's /cons with them. I guess I'm thinking the early 2.0 air cooled to the newer 1.9 petrols.

Also can you convert a air cooled to water. Thinks about problem with front grill etc.

Any details appreciated.

the 2l Aircooled is the most reliable and most longlived. but it's also the thirstiest and apart from a non turbo D or 1600ct then it's the slowest .

as for converting an Aircooled to watercooled, do you mean the engine or the car? the waterboxer engine is, in essence an Aircooled engine converted to watercooled engine, and i doubt anyone could make a better job than vw themselves.

if you meant the car? then yes it can be done and has been. a fellow vw club member near here has a T3 gypsy that was originally Aircooled that is now with a rover V8. he says that all the holes, brackets etc. for the watercooled pipes and radiators were already there on his Aircooled shell, and the front panel with the lower radiator slot needed replacing anyhow. if you've got the skills to do it, then it's quite possible, getting the plastic water pipes from front to back was the hard part for him. but it is a big job, and not worth doing for a reasonably standard van or to put in a vw waterboxer, IMHO

[toomanytoys]

Think you are going to get different opinions from different people...

Remember these are old vehicle s now and will require various small and large jobs doing from age, wear and lack of maint..

Regular maintenance is the big factor in reliability for any engine and chassis..

The aircooleds can be reliable, but 1.6 is utter crap, so dont bother with one of those unless the bodywork is real good.. (swap the engine and box out for a 2L)

2L can and does drop valve seats, correct timing and fueling along with reg servicing.. worn carbs cause all sorts of running probs...

there are prob a lot more 1.9 and 2.1 waterboxers out there than the aircooleds, so that makes the fails seem more.. but in reality its a good engine, but does have design faults... that rear their ugly heads with time..
the secondary problem is that the cooling system is like no other vehicle so even a good local garage can screw up a good engine through not understanding the system...

D.. under powered so get thrashed to make it go anywhere
TD, good but also gets stick as its still only a 1600... general rule is 100k miles before a freshen..

AIr to water... if you really must... but its a pain and the body would have to be worth the effort..

watercooleds can be Subaru'd TDi'd or even any other flavour of engine you fancy... starting with a D/TD gives a big advantage if TDi'ing or Golf/Passat 1.8/2L Inline 4..

As ever, look for the camper (if thats what you are after) that suits your requirements best and then body condition.

Lots of reading on this site especially in the WIKI (top of the page)

[T3_Dreaming]

Thats brill thanks a lot everyone. Fair bit to think about there.

[toomanytoys]

Take it as general info.. there is a lot of info in this site, so do some reading......

[The_blue]

Air cooled is more reliable (IMHO) but can be lacking in power if the engine is tired. Nice and simple though.

Water cooled flat fours have a slight rep for being unreliable (leaky water jackets etc)

1.6 and 1.6TD's are ok if not thrashed. Stick a 1.9TD in and be very happy.

I've blown up one of each except the 2.1 petrol. I'm lacking in mechanical sympathy though...

I would get a 1.6NA or TD and convert to 1.9TD.

Forgot to mention that they are also kewl

[Simon Baxter]

the 2l Aircooled is the most reliable and most longlived. but it's also the thirstiest and apart from a non turbo D or 1600ct then it's the slowest .

Most 2.0l's that come to me have running problems, not very reliable in my eyes, parts can be a struggle to find new also.
One to avoid if you have a choice, in my eyes.
Thing is, you gotta be fairly mechanically inclined to run a T3 now, and yes the 2.0l is fairly basic but the 1.9l is not that much more techincal and a far better buy. More power, more economy, more parts, more info available, less expence.

[sixsprings]

the 2.0l is fairly basic but the 1.9l is not that much more techincal and a far better buy. More power, more economy, more parts, more info available, less expence.

you're one of the experts

so tell me, what's the average or maximum mileage each engine will do before terminal problems?
i've read and heard that a wbx is good for 125k miles, and an Aircooled for 250k miles

and i've had a 2.1 for a year, and twice it's been trailered home from overheating due to leaky pipes.....it never happened (nor ever would) with my old 2.0l

[Simon Baxter]

Any vehicle that is poorly maintained will break down.

[Simon Baxter]

I had a 2.0l Aircooled, it burst a oil cooler, that would have never happened on a WBX.
saying that you Aircooled wouldn't break a coolant hose is, well, a bit of a daft statement really.
The spark plugs didn't go on my Diesel either?!

[Simon Baxter]

If air cooled was so good they would still use it today.
They don't.
Go figure.

[kevtherev]

If air cooled was so good they would still use it today.
They don't.
Go figure.

well said Simon...
but they sound great !!

[geordie skydiver]

If air cooled was so good they would still use it today.

If Aircooled engines were so unreliable, they wouldn't be used in aircraft.

If Aircooled engines weren't so great, they wouldn't still be going strong today. The youngest 2.0L in one of our vans has got to be at a minimum 25 years old. Thats not even considering the hundreds of thousands fitted to older VW's.

I have a Westy with 100,000 miles on it that has never had a rebuild, the engine is still pulls strongly.

Time and technology has moved on, that doesn't make Aircooled engines rubbish.

If there was no such thing as engine conversions, I'd have a 2.1 WBX for sure, but I wouldn't worry too much if it was a 2.0 CU.

As you said, any poorly maintained engine will suffer, but the opposite applys too, any engine that is maintained correctly will go on for many many trouble free miles.

Long live the Aircooled!! (and my stupid fuel bills, slow journeys, and cold feet)

[toomanytoys]

Everyones correct... but look at the amount of Aircooled engine sellers...

it all comes down to mainenance.. as said before.. a well maintaned engine will do lots of miles... I know of wbx' that have done 250k+ without coming apart... then others that have done 80k.... To be perfectly honest, no Aircooled engine will get to 250k without at least the heads being refreshed... they see a hell of a lot of thermal abuse..

They are old vehicles and owners think they dont need to be looked after.. people dont fix small things that turn into big thngs... or wont spend money on them... a lot can be put down to ignorance... "oh should there be water in there"... Oh I cant remember the last time I checked the oil/tyres pressures"