HEEELLLLPPPP veg oil problems, pump leaking!!

Post by **woodman** » 30 Jul 2007, 18:36

I introduced our 1.6TD hightop westy to veg oil about 1000 mles ago. Shes been running smoothly, and maybe even better than with Diesel, generally starting ok, although has got harder, as in; needs more heat and turning over recently, so chucked a £10 of diesel in which helped.

Problem is on Saturday morning after a 170 mile drive the evening before, I discovered an oil leak!! Had a luck (literally a look) and saw oil around a couple of the injectors, with a lot of oil sitting on the engine lump. Today my missis went off with the kids and dog in the westy with the usual bit of turning over before getting going.. About 3 minutes into her journey she called me and said she had broken down. Went to her rescue and checked engine oil= fine, still lots of oil on the block/around the injectors, but will not start!!

I fear that seals on the fuel pump have blown or something and fuel is not getting through. i am not a mechanic and was not designed that way and have only very limited knowledge on what does what.

Just wondered if any of you have experienced anything similar on veg oil or maybe can confirm or have a good guess as to what as happened, and how much I am looking at to get it fixed?

Any feedback and help would be much appreciated.

Cheers!

Post by **monkeynut** » 31 Jul 2007, 19:47

What kind of oil is gathering around the injectors ?give it a sniff

Post by **ELVIS** » 31 Jul 2007, 21:16

replace ya leak off hose/low pressure return lines that connect injectors. biodiesel/oil isnt very forgiving to old rubber ! easy fix - £3 from motor factors

Post by **ELVIS** » 31 Jul 2007, 21:18

oh and one of the reasons it gets harder to start/drives like poo is cos the oil/bio is a good detergent and will strip all the crap from your tank/lines and dump it in the filter . this normally shows at the 500/1000 mile mark.replace the fuel filter.

Post by **Louey** » 01 Aug 2007, 22:06

agree, try above two things before fretting

If the pump is leaking you will see oil on and around the pump and not around the injectors.

The fuel filters need changed a lot more often on veg oil - always best to carry a spare filter and a litre bottle of veg oil too to fill it up before fitting.

Post by **woodman** » 02 Aug 2007, 13:11

I have had a mechanic mate take alook, he thinks the seal/o ring thingy on the top of the pump has blown? Does anyone know if they replacable.

Its defo veg oil all around the injetors, but seems to have leaked off the pump. To top it off the mechanic reckons the strarters had it too

Does any one know where the best place to buy parts for a 1.6TD? or does anyone have a good starter they want to sell?

I'll take the advice on the filter change and lines, but this has put me off using veg oil. I was running it pretty much straight. Has anyone else been running straight SVO and if so have you had many problems?

Thanks.

Post by **ELVIS** » 02 Aug 2007, 20:24

have shuftie ya 'sel with engine running , you can sometimes see it bubbling and see where it is coming from ! which injectors are leaking/wet ? why do you/ 'mechanic mate' think starter is duff if it is turning over ok but just not firing ? my uncles a mechanic and i wouldnt trust him to change a filter in my fish tank

have a look where you have been told pump is leaking from - is it wet ? will be traces of oil on it for sure if it is ! if just the 2 injectors nearest box are wet you can be pretty certain it isnt pump. pics ?

Post by **andysimpson** » 02 Aug 2007, 20:42

This is what happens with veg oil, it is real nasty stuff, these pumps are not designed to run with such a high viscosity fuel, it puts alot pressure on rotor, camplate and driveshaft, its just a question of time untill something breaks. Veg oil also kills the seals as you have found out. If you don't care for your engine and pump keep using svo if you want it reliable put in what its designed for.

Post by **woodman** » 02 Aug 2007, 21:36

The starter has deteriated since the van broke down.Must have been on its way, then turning over to try and start it has finiashed it off. Sounded awful, so wipped it off tonight and it is really f***ed. Not only is it loose and worn, but the alloy housing has bust too. So new one of those I think.

Now the problem is, I have discovered that the veg oil is not coming from the injectors, but from the pump at the top. Theres a 10mm nut holding the accelerater? cable and under that is a blue rubber washer and a brass "o" ring thing, which doesnt seem to want to come out. I reckon its leaking from that.
If anyone knows what I am on about, do you know what its called? and if the brass bit comes out? and where I can get one from/what its called?

Andysimpson- I kinda agree with you a bit, however Rudolf Diesel did in fact design the "Diesel" engine to run on veg oil in order to fuel the agricultural industry, with the foresight of fossil fuels diminishing in the future, and me being a shareholder of an ecological consultancy, its kinda against my ethics to drive hundreds of miles, pumping out loads of Co2. So I figure that as the van went better than "before", then this is maybe a learning curve, in order to run my van on rapeseed oil. I stress rapeseed oil, as I would prefer to use fossil fuels and continue with the Co2 output, than use palm oil-which is not a sustainable fuel, and contributes toward habitat loss and the reduction of mass hectarage of rainforest in the southern hemisphere, which support 1000's of species, in order to reap the financial short term benefits.

Sorry about the babble but isnt this particular forum for people who consider alternative fuels, not only cheaper but better for the planets well being, than pumping out shed loads of Co2? Which takes the natural greenhouse gas' to another level and contributes to the 'buzz phrase' of global warming? which is incidently beginning to unleash its fury.

Post by **Louey** » 03 Aug 2007, 07:22

I remember my old 1.6 pump starting leaking from ontop and that was without using veg oil.

Andy is right that veg oil eats up rubber seals quicker than diesel, but what has happened here has probably shown that your pump was on its way out already.

I would get another pump or find a place to replace the seals in the current one, there is a place in Birmingham that does it but costs roughly £150

Post by **mister smith** » 11 Aug 2007, 21:24

Are you running a 2 tank system with heat exchangers etc, or are you just throwing straight veg oil in the diesel tank?

Post by **woodman** » 11 Aug 2007, 21:33

Straight veg oil in the tank

Post by **mister smith** » 11 Aug 2007, 22:44

oh dear

You're right about rudolph, he had many different fuels in mind for his Diesel engine. They could also be built to run on coal dust, but don't expect to run a modern diesel on coal dust simply because Rudolf Diesel had it in mind as a potential fuel.

Do a bit of research into running on svo. Google is your friend.

this site is as good as any to start reading:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#problem

also the dude that runs this site below pops up on here from time to time.
You can get the bits needed for a diy conversion here.

http://www.biotuning.co.uk/Home.htm

If your ethics are important to you, you should be able to justify the cost of a conversion, so I hope you get your pump fixed and convert your engine to run happily on veg oil. Mr simpson is right, it is nasty stuff, and has its issues, but it can be done properly.

Save the planet and your wallet (not to mention getting one over on the gov. & big oil etc)

Best of luck with the pump, hope its a cheap fix

Also, i understand palm oil not being good (depends where its from), but you seem to be suggesting that rapeseed oil is a fossil fuel?

Post by **HarryMann** » 11 Aug 2007, 23:08

Think what you need is a set of Butyl or Neoprene seals?... you could also ask on the VWGTD forum, they's seem to know these things, and many things easier to get in US than here, surprisingly...

Do check the low pressure return lines first though, they have a habit of leaking when old and grotty...

AndyS has seen the longer term results of using SVO a few times I should imagine

There should be a Sticky post at the top of this forum detailing all the pros and cons of using various Alternative Fuels... Mmm... any volunteers?

PS. PM me if you want a 2nd hand pump...

Post by **Louey** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:39

I've found the details of a place in Birmingham, in Digbeth which is near the city centre. They sell a rebuild kit for the diesel pumps for about £50 - I remember they also offer to rebuild it for about £150 (not cheap I know)

Car Electrical Services
77 Upper Trinity Street
Deritend
Birmingham
B9 4EG
0121 771 4720

cheaper to get a 2nd hand pump