towing van with car: legal and practical questions

[MacAoidh]

I've decided to bite the bullet, move out of the hills back into the city where I can earn enough money to own a t25...

The van hasn't been driven for many months, except for starting it up every now and again. One or two engine issues, maybe patchable, maybe not. It's got an MoT, and will be taxed/insured.

I may want to tow it. Would a freshly serviced Honda Accord 2.0i auto do it? Probably 150 miles I don't have a tow rope, is it worth getting one of those poles/what-have-yous? The route will mostly be flattish A-roads. The lights on the van work fine. It would be extra handy if it could be carrying 100kg or so of house-moving load as well, or would that just be stupid?

Any special insurance issues, e.g. on the part of whoever I get to steer the van?

Any other advice also gratefully received.

[mush145]

I recently had to tow mine about 20 miles to the garage. I looked at the poles and I did not think that they were strong enough for the weight of the van. I bought a heavy duty elaciated tow rope which did the job nicely. I was towing using a Mercedes E220 and had no problems. The trick is to have a good co driver and to always keep the rope tight. Not sure on insurance, but was passed by two police cars who did not bat an eyelid.

Remember to display the on "On-tow" sign

[sean collins]

I have had to investigate the maximum towing capacity of some vehicles in thepast. You may hear various bits of advice like "you cant tow anything heavier than the towing vehicle" etc etc. I finally got the answer from the department of transport and DVLA (press 1 if you want to wait for ever........2 if you want to end it all now....3 if you think elvis is still alive....).
There is a specific "maximum train weight" associated with every vehicle. (the weight of your Honda plus the towed weight) it is supposed to relates to the stopping power of your brakes. I seem to remember that a figure is stamped on the VIN plate in your engine bay and this figure is multiplied by a apecific ratio dependant upon what you are towing (and whether it has it's own brakes etc).
I believe that as long as you are towing within these limits and your licence permits you to tow (law changed a few years ago, not sure exaxctly when, as long as you passed your test before then you are covered)
In the instances I was looking into the towing vehicle was a landrover and this vehicle is specifically design to tow heavier than normal loads and I think it worked out for a short wheelbase landy you could tow about three times the weight of the landrover itself.
Anyway check the VIN, check with DVLA on "Max Train weight", and check with insurance just to be safe. Other than that if you have breakdown cover is it easier to just attempt to drive the camper and be prepared to possibly need assistance?
hope that helps

[peasant]

I wouldn't tow for 150 miles, for the following reasons:

Without the engine running in your van, your breaks will be unassisted and very heavy ...accident waiting to happen

The sudden pulling and yanking on the rope whenever you have to take off (especially going round corners/junctions) will stress the tow rope/bar, the tow eye and eventuelly even the chasis of the towing vehicle. Somethings going to snap sooner or later and you wouldn't be the first one to pull their car out of alignment.

And that's leaving aside all the legal and insurance implications.

Towing's fine for short distances, but 150 miles? ...not a good idea.

A plan B is called for.

[SplendiferousII]

For a braked trailer, you are allowed to tow 85% of the tow cars wieght.

Unbraked 50%.

It does not matter what the Vin plate shows, this aplies to all cars Inc 4x4's. Not Good vehicles ! they have different rules.

The police have been known to escort small cars towing oversized caravans from the motorway.

[SplendiferousII]

Quote

"And that's leaving aside all the legal and insurance implications. "

The car being towed does not have to be taxed, Mot'd, Insured or anything. - must have legal tyres !

As its under the control of the car towing it and therefore is covered by that cars perticulars.

I know - I dont trust that either - on two recent occasions I have towed a car home I have called the police and have asked those question.

On both occasions they have not been able to answer as they do not know and have recorded the fact I have called to enquire.

[thegamwellsmythes]

We are with the RAC and have arranged with them to pick up our non driving bus and take it to the garage to be repaired. I suppose this would be the homestart/recovery bit.

You get 6 recoveries a year with the RAC so I suppose it would be one of those if you are with them.

If you are with a recovery service give them a ring and see if you can arrange a pick up. You know, say you are moving house and the van won't start and all that. It's blag time. We've done it twice as I say.

The RAC won't tow a T25 with a bar, rope or those wheel lifting things, always on a truck. Too big.

[sean collins]

Splendiferous sound advice but not 100% correct IMO. The figures of 85% and 50% I have heard before, but DVLA and the department of transport both told me that these sorts of figures are often used by the public but are not the official answer.
about 3 years ago I was informed by our transport officer that our works landrover could not legally tow the trailor that we used it for because the trailer was heavier than the landy. I then sought clarification from DVLA etc and I did get a written response as described below.
The actual figure depends on the "max train weight" for the vehicle as per the manufacturers specifications on the Vin plate. As I said our SWB landrover could tow up to three times it's weight (trailer with breaks) because Land Rover say it is designed to do so.
This was then accepted by the transport officer (he couldn't realy argue with ministry of transport) and so we could carry on using the landrover to tow the trailer.
As is always the case I could have been mis-informed and things could have changed since but we did get it in writing at the time.

[MacAoidh]

Hey, what a blizzard of excellent advice!!!

I reckon I'll go with the breakdown cover option (the engine problem is one that would be exacerbated by carrying a heavy load...), but my 2p's worth on train weights would be that I'd expect a towed vehicle to not be a trailer.

I picked up a phrase on this site, that the weight limits are to stop the tail wagging the dog. That's the risk with one axle on the towed object, or two close together. With a vehicle under tow, you've got a wheel in each corner, each one fitted with a brake. Isn't that different physics?

[Syncro G]

From what I've been told and read places, the VIN plate is the most important thing, dont exceed it. You'll also need B+E on your licance, if you passed befor 1997 you'll have this.

There will be a max weight of the vehicle, the trailer, and the train weight (car+trailer) which might not be the sum of the two.

Unbraked trailers can't weigh more than 750kg or half the unladen vehicle weight, whichevers lower.

Trailers with overrun brakes (squashable hitches) can't weigh more than 3.5tonnes, to exceed this you need powered trailer brakes and a towing eye (50mm balls won't do for over 3.5t)

As for what a perticular car can tow its down to the manufacturer within the rules above. The load it can pull away with whilst laden on a 12% gradient has something to do with it. This is why 4x4 vehicles like landys have seemingly rediculus towing limits, low range gears and 4 wheel drive traction means they are quite good at pulling heavy things up hills. A land-Rover 90 can tow 3.5t despite weighing something like 1.7t. The max Land-rover alow for a 110 is 4t but you need to change the hitch and fit expencive brakes so its rarely done. Things like 85% of the unladen towing vehicle are recomendations.

Tow ropes, bars, dollys and A frames are for emergency recovery only. Using them otherwise is illegal these days, I think this is a relatively recent bit of legislation. Quite what defines an emergency however I don't know so if its a short local trip you could doubtless get away with it. Using a tow rope on the road isn't great fun on a short distance so I wouldn't even consider long distance.

Suspending an axle off the ground is fine (recovery truck style) but the vehicle must be taxed and MOT'd if the wheels are on the road (maybe its fine to do this without an MOT if the vehicle is traveling to a teat or repairer for a test?), its not considered a trailer even though the driver needs to be able to tow. My Dad has known people who tryed to pass a vehicle without an engine as a trailer, it didn't work and they got done! If its not roadworthy get a trailer, its the best way to tow anyway.

As for the RAC towing a T25, Dad had his towed with a Transit when the cooling system blew. It was on the motorway so it was flat towed with a bar to the next junction slowly (automatic). As the RAC guy was having a quiet day and dad was going somewhere local, rather than getting a flat bed he pulled it with the transit. THE Caravelle was towed backwards with the rear suspended to protect the autobox - I guess that must have been fine for him to do it; he wouldn't have done it if they were busy though, it'd have needed a lorry.

[wasserleaker]

a mate towed my T25 with a peugeot 306 1.9 diesel . . .also mine, it totally knackered the clutch in about 12 miles, but ....
A, he was a rubbish towing driver, on and off the gas, not smooth, trying to drive and roll a fag at same time, etc, and...
B, the clutch may have been on it's way out anyway, hard to know! some hills were involved, and a hill start

[MacAoidh]

Cheers for all the replies; I'll have a go at patching up the engine issues, but make very sure that I've got breakdown cover in place (registered at new address) and a reserved parking space at the other end...

[airhead]

Go to a hire place and hire a car transporting trailer thats big enough for the van, then get someone who has a van or jeep with a towbar to transport the van on the trailer. Thats what I'd do.

[Mocki]

those toy towing bars wont do the job with one of these, but its now illegal to tow on a rope any distance other than to move a vehicle from a unsafe location. Get a proper towing bar, and a proper co pilot.

It is also illegal to use a a frame for anything other than a emergenct recovery to the nearest place of safety.

An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal. It is still OK for use to recover a vehicle to a place of safety.

see it all here

[hembo666]

what about hireing a trailer designed for the job, not too expensive but depends on if the towcar is up to it.