If you ever wondered what was inside the VC

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 20 Jun 2007, 17:29

Well I think we are all agreed, just about. The syncro in four wheel drive VC mode is a very safe vehicle to drive offering huge amounts of traction and benefits from better stability under braking and in cross winds. Also in 2 wheel drive you can cope with about 99.5% of normal driving situations, and if not pushed hard you would not miss it. The decoupler simply allows you to take the strain out of the system which is wearing out the expensive VC, CV's, props when you really dont need it, ie driving around town or on the motorway. I drive up to Scotland allot and will feel much happier about that drive in 2wd. I think that on a dry surface a 2wd can hussle not quite as well as a syncro but with a better top speed, give it some damp and tight turns or very fast hard bends and the syncro is better. But then that is just a pull of a button away with a decoupler. I remeber when the M25 first opened, I used to commute down the M1 and join the M25 anti clockwise. I did this first in a 2wd 1984 caravelle, and then in the 1987 syncro. In the later that lovely right hand curve could be taken flat out late at night with total assurance (clear roads helped too) and in the wet. the 2wd was not that stable. So with the decoupler I am just trying to make the system better and more reliable.

Post by **HarryMann** » 20 Jun 2007, 19:39

In the later that lovely right hand curve could be taken flat out late at night with total assurance

I know that curve quite well too, living just a few miles North of there...

Post by **PC52** » 20 Jun 2007, 20:27

HarryMann wrote:
* Seem to remember Jenny only screamed once (well loudly only once), but forgot to ask Sharon how many times Pete did....

I didn't say anything which I can repeat on here

, I did make sure my seat belt was on though.

Basically VC versus decopler boils down to what you want to do with your Syncro. Most of our vehicles have seen over 100K there is always going to be an element of wear 'n' tear on them.

Driving with a decoupler does mean more driver involvement but the driver is responsible for the engagement not the vehicle. Which in principle sounds good but when you are concentrating on everything else is it something that gets forgotten?

How many miles should a recon VC expect to do?

Post by **andysimpson** » 20 Jun 2007, 20:45

PC52 wrote:
HarryMann wrote:
I didn't say anything which I can repeat on here , I did make sure my seat belt was on though.

I also experiened Sharons driving, i think i was to worried to say anything

Post by **peasant** » 20 Jun 2007, 20:47

Just to point out one minor detail:

If you replace the VC with a fixed shaft, it is not advisable to engage 4WD for a lengthy period on the road ...even if that road is wet.

Unless the road is seriously greasy and slippery, even a wet surface will provide enough adhesion that after a few twists and bends your now non-center-diff-drivetrain will have wound up so badly that it either comes out of the bind by jolting into any direction (most likely the most inappropriate and unsafe one

) or by breaking something.

Post by **HarryMann** » 20 Jun 2007, 21:57

Andy Simpson wrote:I also experiened Sharons driving, i think i was too worried to say anything

I think Sharon deserved a prize for best (woman) driver on Coast-to-Coast

The fact she was the only woman at the wheel for prolonged drives doesn't come into it...

what Andy doesn't say is he had as much a job getting The Yellow One out of his mirror, as as I did the Big Green squealing Monster Diesel Rocket

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 20 Jun 2007, 22:18

On road the VC has saved my life on at least one occasion, maybe others that I am not aware of too! maybe I wouldn't have pushed it so hard if I wasn't in the blue one, then again it is comforting to know it is there when you need it.

Post by **andysimpson** » 20 Jun 2007, 22:23

HarryMann wrote:
Andy Simpson wrote:I also experiened Sharons driving, i think i was too worried to say anything

I think Sharon deserved a prize for best (woman) driver on Coast-to-Coast

The fact she was the only woman at the wheel for prolonged drives doesn't come into it... what Andy doesn't say is he had as much a job getting The Yellow One out of his mirror, as much as I did the Green squealing Monster Diesel

Yes Sharon is an excelent driver.

I had problems pulling away from the yellow one on some twisty road sections due to my full time 4wd suffering traction problems front and rear coming out of some corners. I lost 2-3mm on all 4 tyres that weekend.

Post by **HarryMann** » 20 Jun 2007, 23:30

How many miles should a recon VC expect to do?

60 to 90,000 miles has been quoted...

I doubt mine will last quite that long though, but who cares other than the bank manager

Post by **vwjon** » 21 Jun 2007, 02:15

so who can reccomend a suplier for the de-coupler? busmann? syncro hospital? someone mentioned getting the bits and modding your own nose cone. info please. cheers jon - australia where the postage in high!!

Post by **Russel** » 21 Jun 2007, 05:33

When using a billet shaft(NO VC) u DO NOT INGAGE ON TARMACK!
This is a pure offroad setup only used on very loose sufaces or going quite straight on very uneven(axle twisting)terrain.
The biggest advantage of the Billet shaft is the enormous increase in traction.
Aa and this was a VW setup not just some pie in the sky idea by someone.
Main reason it was not continued

is due to not being as user friendly as the VC.
The VC being the easy driver option and of coures for road use.

Post by **HarryMann** » 21 Jun 2007, 08:38

Very good for rock-climbing I've heard (from Syncro de Mayo reports)... presumably keeping fairly straight on. Charging about wouldn't be a good idea I'd have thought...

Think Russel posted earlier where decouplers could be got from...

There's Tom Lengyel's one in the US, using the original output shaft's spline coupler tube (as the engagement device) and various copies of the original Steyr-Puch components from Europe and South Africa... the latter original SDP design has a full heavy duty dog-clutch. These components are not cheap to make...

The mods to the nosecone casing are basically drilling out the operating shaft hole (about 19mm), inserting a couple of bushes and drilling and tapping the vacuum unit's mounting bracket blind bolt holes. The main op shaft hole needs to be drilled pretty accurately (pillar drill)... a new output shaft bearing and seal would also be required, the seal being quite expensive, VW only. At a push the original might be re-used, if careful.

Post by **JustSharon** » 21 Jun 2007, 20:55

andysimpson wrote:
HarryMann wrote:
Andy Simpson wrote:I also experiened Sharons driving, i think i was too worried to say anything

I think Sharon deserved a prize for best (woman) driver on Coast-to-Coast

The fact she was the only woman at the wheel for prolonged drives doesn't come into it... what Andy doesn't say is he had as much a job getting The Yellow One out of his mirror, as much as I did the Green squealing Monster Diesel

Yes Sharon is an excelent driver.

I had problems pulling away from the yellow one on some twisty road sections due to my full time 4wd suffering traction problems front and rear coming out of some corners. I lost 2-3mm on all 4 tyres that weekend.

Thank you for your comments they are very much appreciated. See you all at SP4 for more fun, I have just worked in some overtime to gain the day off on Monday.

Andy, Why were you losing traction ? Tyres, I checked ours against our brand new BFG and we are looking at less than 1mm. Is 2-3mm loss a regular thing when these events happen? or is it when we just follow Clive on the mad, blind screaming corners?

Post by **andysimpson** » 21 Jun 2007, 21:04

JustSharon wrote:
andysimpson wrote:
HarryMann wrote:
I think Sharon deserved a prize for best (woman) driver on Coast-to-Coast

The fact she was the only woman at the wheel for prolonged drives doesn't come into it... what Andy doesn't say is he had as much a job getting The Yellow One out of his mirror, as much as I did the Green squealing Monster Diesel

Yes Sharon is an excelent driver.

I had problems pulling away from the yellow one on some twisty road sections due to my full time 4wd suffering traction problems front and rear coming out of some corners. I lost 2-3mm on all 4 tyres that weekend.

Thank you for your comments they are very much appreciated. See you all at SP4 for more fun, I have just worked in some overtime to gain the day off on Monday.

Andy, Why were you losing traction ? Tyres, I checked ours against our brand new BFG and we are looking at less than 1mm. Is 2-3mm loss a regular thing when these events happen? or is it when we just follow Clive on the mad, blind screaming corners?

I think its a combination of nasty remoulds and the way torque builds at low revs, it does not do it with its normal road tyres. The blind corners were mad.

Ask Andrew we were pushing Clive up some hills nearly.

Post by **toomanytoys** » 25 Jun 2007, 12:22

Seems this thread has taken some very different directions!!!!

Having driven a 2wd for the last 7 years and got stuck with it in simple areas.. a difflock or LSD would be highly prized..
But also having covered nearly 20k miles in a year in the Syncro Doka some of it with a non locking box and a lot with no prop shaft in.. I would have to say in 4wd mode there is better stability under braking and unbeviable traction compared to 2wd and even 2wd with a diff lock..
A factor I have against both of my vehicles.. is lack of rear end weight.. as the 2wd is a caravelle and comparativly light compared to a camper and the Doka has nothing on the back too..
For most of us a VC is the only choice.. we never get into such terrain that a billet shaft would "save"us and the general traction/antilock properties of the VC work perfectly on the road..

I do like the idea of a decoupler though. (with a tight VC). as I have driven most of my miles this year on the motorway in very good conditions at high (well for my 78hp) speeds for hours.. (4000rpm = about 120kmh). As I have a tight VC this is why the prop is removed..
its a pain to have to refit the prop when wanting to go offroad or even traverse a wet grassy field... (embaressed myself a couple of times)

A new VC would be the cheaper and always there option, but cant help thinking that the stiff VC would help in offroad situations more (and I am doing a bit more now)
Of course.. if you fit a decoupler, what happens when the stiff tired VC finally fails?.. yep you still have to buy a new one or a tight second hand one..

This will run and run I reckon.. but it comes down to what your needs are..

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