nooby question: ex German army syncros ...whaddaya think?

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 14:28

Hi there!
New on this forum and already asking stupid questions ...

My current line of thinking is: to get a really nice, low mileage, rust free, prime technical condition ex Germany army turbo diesel 14" syncro Kombi.

Use it (but not abuse it) for a few years and then hopefully sell it on at minimal loss.

Now ..these yokes aren't cheap any more. 6k euro seems to be the going rate + plus all the cost of exporting it (to Ireland in my case)

For that steep kind of money you hopefully get a vehicle in top technical condition ...but that's it. More or less tatty interior and zero goodies when it comes to additional equipment/spec.

And then there is the paint job ....

Personally, I wouldn't mind all that ...I've had T3's before, I want one again (at least for a while) and I want a syncro this time.
I couldn't care less about plush interiors, fancy accessories etc, etc.

Might fit different wheels and somewhat more comfortable seats, that's about it.

Now, they say "the day you buy is the day you sell" ....so I'd like to ask the sages' opinion on what you think the interest in such an "olive" would be a few years down the line ...mileage should still be under 100 k (miles) by then and I will attempt to keep it in as a good a condition as possible.

Do you think a no frills "Olive" might sell?
By that I mean ...will it sell for a price that will somewhat reflect the initial buying price and the care that went into keeping it ...or will it just go for a pittance to someone who's looking for a syncro to wreck down in some quarry?
Or will I be stuck with it with no intersted buyers because everybody else is going for Dokas, 16"'s, Carvelles, LLE's, Westies etc, etc...

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 30 Apr 2007, 16:11

Hi peasant, i have an ex finnish army syncro, from the army records i have it was looked after very well whilst in the army, having gearbox oils changed regulary, engine oil every 5k, but this hasnt stopped it from suffering terminal engine and gearbox problems, probably due to a variety of non enthusiast drivers just having a laugh in it and abusing it. The drab green paint will only appeal to a few, I am restoring mine to the original vw escorial green. If you like these vehicles then nothing else will do. I ran a caravelle gl syncro from nearly new in the late 80's and it got to 127,000 miles without any probs, back then viscous coupling problems were unheard of, but now everyones seems to be going. I remember the trouble free motoring of a nearly new syncro, and it's gonna take a long time to get mine to that condition. i dont care though, it's the ultimate vehicle as far as i am concerned, and wont be selling it on. I think that the bargains of importing are less noticable now, but you can get what you want. you could prob find one just as good or better in the u.k.
good luck. simon

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 17:32

Yeah, I know ...the ex army vehicles can be a bit of a mixed bag in regards to condition and previous abuse. You can get "as new" or better condition ...or not. It very much depends on where it was (ab-) used and how motivated the service guys were.

But that's a risk you run with almost every second-hand vehicle.

But just assuming its a good'un and I manage to keep it like that ...will I be able to sell it on again as is or will I have to tart it up / convert to a camper in order to have any chance of a sale?

Just doing some pre-emptive market research with my potential future buyers here

Don't quite fancy carting it back to Germany (where there is a market of sorts for original ex army yokes) to sell it on again ...

Post by **syncro4wd** » 30 Apr 2007, 19:45

Hi,

Most of these army vehicles are diesels...they had a hard live in the army..most of army vehicles have been maintained well but often pushed to the limit ...what would you do when you are young and you get a 70hp box on wheels.
If you have 6k to spend , look for a 16inch or a tristar syncro ...than you b sure of vehicle which will only increase in value.
On mobile there is a 16inch , otherwise CJ at syncrospares.co.uk has a nice 16inch or Busman.be in belgium has plenty of choice in rare syncros.

Erwin

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:10

If you buy a solid base you can always add the other bits as you go along, even the paint!

Post by **Hacksawbob** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:12

If you buy a solid base you can always add the other bits as you go along, even the paint! Although I'd say EUR 6K I'd be wanting something of ex army spec to be pretty mint! Are you talking dealer prices? I take it you've looked through www.mobile.de

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:23

Yepp ...mobile.de is what I based the price on.

Well on paper (or rather on screen) these last of the army Syncros do look pretty good and for 6k € (or 4k STG) i'd rather buy this

than that:

And I likes my diesels ...

Post by **bigbluebus** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:26

look for a 16inch

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:37

Mmmhhh yeeesss ...I'd love a 16 inch.

But I don't think my pockets are deep enough.
Neither for buying a good one, nor for keeping it good.

I'm not really looking for the "ultimate 4x4" (driving that already ...Suzuki Jimny

) as off-roading in Ireland without swamp tyres and serious mods is a bit of a futile excercise and I can't afford to keep a dedicated, fully specced off-roader lurking about the place for the occasional trip out into the muck.

No, the 14" diesel Kombi would just be a daily runaround with slightly enhanced capabilities.

But I can see a trend developing already ...14" + Diesel + Kombi + Nato colours = very little enthusiasm.

I'll have to factor that into my calculations.

Thanks for all your input so far !

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:42

Turning it into a camper will increase the number of potential purchasers in my view, and seems to add a lot of value to the vehicle. If you convert yourself then you will more than likley get your money back. getting your money back on a £2000 paintjob would appear to be more problematic. If you look at the price difference between the top spec westfalia campers and the caravelles you will see a huge gap, you can get into that money by converting. I bought a full Reimo interior kit 5 years ago, it made a beautiful camper, and sold to the first person that saw it!!
Simon.

Post by **bigbluebus** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:42

6k € (or 4k STG) i'd rather buy this

+ flight + fuel driving back + registering it

£3950

needs a VC (maybe)

but if yer likes yer diesels, fair do's

you can get into that money by converting.

ooo, I've even got a westy pop top ready to collect.

My van, like a fat red money making cherry ready for picking

Pah, might keep it he he he he

Post by **Aidan** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:49

having bought an ex NATO doka into the uk and subsequently sold it I'd say you'd possibly be ok but having to pay duty into ireland would make it a six thousand euro over two year real cost thing to you but you'd get most of the initial capital back at the end provided that the engine and gearbox don't go bang, ours cost us only a few hundred in service and small bits costs and nothing major went in two years, but I wouldn't have put a warranty on it when we sold it on, though it was pretty good and a fair price and we were happy so was buyer and there were a few others interested.....but in two years time in a recession tight market high fuel costs could be a different thing

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:50

syncrosimon wrote:Turning it into a camper will increase the number of potential purchasers in my view, and seems to add a lot of value to the vehicle. If you convert yourself then you will more than likley get your money back. getting your money back on a £2000 paintjob would appear to be more problematic. If you look at the price difference between the top spec westfalia campers and the caravelles you will see a huge gap, you can get into that money by converting. I bought a full Reimo interior kit 5 years ago, it made a beautiful camper, and sold to the first person that saw it!!
Simon.

Only "problem" is that I had two VW campers in a row for the last 15 years (one CS and one JX, both with Reimo interiors) and have now upgraded to a "proper" motorhome.

I've had quite enough of Veedub campers ...brilliant as they are ...but I'd rather leave it for someone else to convert.

Having had two (and lots of improvements made to them) I'd never finish the conversion

and pour needless money into it (and at the end I probably couldn't bring myself to sell it either ...and what would I do with two campers??

)

Post by **peasant** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:54

Beaker wrote:.....but in two years time in a recession tight market high fuel costs could be a different thing

Ahh ...see ...now ....

That's where my cunning plan kicks in

If it really comes to that, it will get a veggie oil conversion and I'll keep it !

Website · Post by **syncrosimon** » 30 Apr 2007, 20:59

The supply of ex army vehicles is high at the moment, but may be about to get less as the forces update their vehicles. It could be that their increasing rarity in the future will make them valuable in original army condition. You go to any country show and there is always a stand of ex army vehicles that no one was interested in 20 years ago. The syncro ex army vehicle could be the next Kubel Wagen of the future and might be where the clever money goes. The amount of money thats gone on mine though certainly aint clever