Crankshaft ID

Post by **Dangerbus** » 18 Jan 2007, 17:09

Hi all,

I have stripped the engine from my 1984 1.9 (DG) WBX T25 and found that the cam bearings are shot (lumps missing out of them!) Whilst i'm renewing the cam bearings I thought it would make sense to change the main bearings as well. I have checked the haynes and bentley manuals and they both mention that there should be paint marks on the crank (red, blue or green) but my crank has green paint on it which which would indicate that the crank is a 2.1 rather than a 1.9!

Can anyone shed anylight on this? I just want to know what to ask Mr VW when I go to get a set of bearings from the dealer.

I'm pretty sure the engine is a 1.9, but can you fit a 2.1 crank in a 1.9 case or are they all the same anyway?

Thanks

DB

Post by **Fritz** » 19 Jan 2007, 00:37

Danger,,,,,,,,,The logical answer would be yes the same crank is used in both motors, with only the bore of the pistons making the difference between the two.

What the man at the VW garage will be interested in is what size bearings your require, and not what colour paint has been blobbed on your crank.

So get your micrometer out just before you go to be on the safe side.

Regards

Fritz,,,,,,,,,

Post by **badger** » 19 Jan 2007, 00:50

2.1 crank is offset ground on the big ends (so will be smaller diameter) and uses longer rods to achieve larger displacement - so maybe measuring the big ends and comparing to spec in bentley manual will indicate if it's a 1.9 or 2.1 crank?

Post by **Fritz** » 19 Jan 2007, 01:10

It's not often I am right but it appears I am wrong again,,,,,

Regards ,

Fritz,,,,,,,,

Post by **badger** » 19 Jan 2007, 01:39

Either way, like Fritz said, its the main bearing diameter that's important - whether it's a 1.9 or 2.1 crank it's still going back into the same motor.

Post by **HarryMann** » 19 Jan 2007, 02:44

The back of the existing shells should tell you, if the marks haven't been pounded out by now.

You need to see the colour code chart in Bentley, if its a 2.1, Section 13.53

Blue Red colour codes near mains indicate tolerance/size..

perhaps you should check the engine code itself on block.. how likely is it that it has been fitted with a diferent crank?

Either mic up the crank or take the shells to the parts counter, 'tis not an easy one this. If hasn't gone through the white metal I'd stick with them unless you can find the correct ones easily..

Post by **Dangerbus** » 21 Jan 2007, 14:05

Thanks for all the replies guys...

Yesterday I did get my mic out, checked the journals and promptly zoomed over to the local 'commercial' VW dealer who checked on his little computer only to tell me that 'some' of the the main bearings are now out of production!

I am a little unsure what to do now, I have managed to get the new cam bearings ok but it would seem daft to rebuild the engine with the old main bearings!

Would you guys reccomend bearings from GSF or JK or anyone else?

Cheers

DB

Post by **HarryMann** » 21 Jan 2007, 15:13

GSF can usually supply or at least my local one tries hard (3 attempts at getting the right diesel 1.9 big-end ones, eyeballed them in the end!)
This is what Bentley says...

STD (to 1985) and 2.1 Digifant/Syncro:

Brg No. 1 59.980-59.990 (Bl dot) or 59.971-59.979 (Red dot)

Brg No. 3 54.980-54.990 (Bl dot) or 54.971-54.979 (Red dot)

Brg No. 4 39.984-40.000

Con Rod (b/e): 54.983-54.996

================
Brg No. 2:

Std Size thru (to?) 1985: 54.971-54.990

2.1L Digifant/Syncro: 54.980-54.990 (Bl dot) or 54.971-54.979 (Red dot)

Codes for mains 1,2 & 3: Blue= =001; Red = 004

Green is crankshaft colour code for 2.1L engine-Digifant/Syncro)

All highly confusing if you ask me

Post by **toomanytoys** » 21 Jan 2007, 19:34

MMMM....

Bit of confusion in this thread..

Early 1.9 (upto about 1985) had different style of bearings on the mains to the later 1.9/2.1 case...
a 2.1 crank will go in the early 1.9 case, but only after quite a bit of clearnceing, so this is unlikely..
the difference between a 1.9 and a 2.1 is the crank has a few extra MM throw, not really offset ground and retains the same conrod bearings as a 1.9 (and even type 1 Aircooled engines)
Late 1.9/2.1 case is the same and can be biult up whichever way you please...

Yes the early main bearings have been discontinued..
the later ones have not..
And its only 1 bearing that is different as far as I am aware.. so its possible you could rebiuld using mostly new bearings and reuse the one that doesnt fit..
Otherwise..
Speak to an engine rebiulder..
Or find a later engine...

Early / late case can be distinguished by a "B" on the end of the part number.. a "B" IS a late case.

Post by **HarryMann** » 21 Jan 2007, 21:28

Brg No. 2:

Std Size thru (to?) 1985: 54.971-54.990

2.1L Digifant/Syncro: 54.980-54.990 (Bl dot) or 54.971-54.979 (Red dot)

That must be it then.. Numero 2?

Can't believe either that the 2.1 is offset ground from a 1.9 blank, that would be appalling for a prioduction engine.

Unless you've got know low oil pressure problems, rumblings mains or they are through the white-metal, should you be worrying.

Post by **Aidan** » 22 Jan 2007, 12:25

you could always ask elite vw they may even be able to supply extinct bearing

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