Starter motor problems, Please help, end of tether

[Hacksawbob]

first starter motor failed.
bought GSF replacement
installed new bush (soaked over night in oil)
installed new starter. motor Clicked but wouldn't throw the engine over.
removed starter from van and tested, would only click the armature wasn't spinning
GSF replaced motor
tested before install clicking and spinnning nicely. (from running engine 14volts)
installed in van, turned engine over once (reluctantly) then just clicking again. tested in situ still clicking (jumping from spade terminal to main lead) still just clicking
Volts checked at starter 12.6V
removed from van and tested now not spinning just clicking.



tested on running van with 14 volts it will run for a max of 3 seconds then progressively slower needing some throttle to get it going

this is on the synro aswell so un/install is slightly more fun. Any ideas?

[toomanytoys]

"pooh" batch of starters????

if it dont work off the vehicle, then summat is wrong with it....

[Hacksawbob]

it worked prior to installation, although to be fair it was tested on a running engine, not from a standing start. point taken though, I should have tested it before firing the engine up. how long shoul it spin for when tested outside the van? should it spin indefinately? does it have a cut off when it reaches a certain speed?

[kevtherev]

Bob
as you know starter motors run (under load) untill the battery goes flat ,they're not governed but nor are they cooled so they will get hot if spun up full tllt constantly.
just a thought is the starter main feed cable getting warm or hot?

[Hacksawbob]

didn't run it for more than 3 seconds at a time (it wouldn't) not that I could notice. fiddly little wire that I was using for ignition key whilst testing got warm but that is to be expected, casing certainly didnt get hot, but then not much would out there bbbbbrrrr. what would hot lead indicate? I see what your saying though about running without a load will not be good for it.

[kevtherev]

that the motor windings are shorting. Does or did the motor get hot while trying to spin it...just trying to eliminate the magnets/winding side.

I still suspect a mechanical reason though

[Hacksawbob]

motor casing did not get hot/warm

[toomanytoys]

Make sure the cable end is nice and clean and the battery clamp and terminal are clean too... and noty just look clean.. use a wire brush to remove the oxides.... (small wire brush wheel in a drill does wonders..
oh and the earth lead on the box to chassis is also in good nick and the ends are too...

[kevtherev]

Hmmmmmm..... so the armature throws the gate and the heavy amps (40 on mine) won't spin it up.....hmmm

[Hacksawbob]

all wire brushed and shiny, posts and terminals had the body end off the earth lead about 3 months ago. emery paper on both sides.
assuming worst case that frictional forces ore to blame,

bush tapped home by hand (with reverse of screw extractor) looking at it with a mirror I'd say the forward edge looks shiny and raged but nothing major (ie nothing than 0.5mm), difficult to get a picture! do you think it would be enough to resist turning forces? van has been propped up on one side for a week oil drain? new (1000 miles) engine combination of the above?

[kevtherev]

I used to use starters on my go-carts and know they will spin up untill the heat seizes them


I'd be guessing now at any thing Bob.......... it's a good one ...good luck

[Andy syncro-nutz]

Do you have a good earth via the box to chassis?

[Hacksawbob]

I'll double check (both) earths, wouldn't explain poor turn over when tested uninstalled though would the motor burn out quickly (ie on 4 start attempts) if prevented from turning whilst installed?

[Simon Baxter]

How can you test it out of the vehicle?
There is only one bearing supporting the armature and it's not a true test.
The armature won't be central in the stator.
Unless it's a Diesel, but you said you changed the starter bush.

[Simon Baxter]

Battery lead from battery, the thick one.
Peel back the rubber boot and sleeve and check how corroded the wire is going into the terminal, sometimes they give the impression that all is well unless you peel the boot back, then you see all the death and corruption inside.