stranded!

Post by **MacAoidh** » 02 Nov 2006, 13:19

It's all happened at once. Had to be carried home on the back of a truck.

Can anyone please help me get a few more miles out of this van so I can earn the money to get a new engine in?

Wouldn't start this morning; this has been an issue since getting it back on the road. Cold is fine, hot is pretty good. Warm is tricky, finally today couldn't make it. After about 6 hours at 60mph (normally only do 50). I was outside a VW dealer, they had a go with a portable booster, then with 8 mechanics pushing (8 mechanics for 15 mins = 2 hours of workshop time, at main dealer rate! I'll write a nice letter to VW UK). All they could get out of it was black smoke. But it bump started fine, in reverse off the tow-(carry) truck. Runs fine once it gets going, never misses a beat.

Has been smoky ever since getting back on the road (not driven for 15 months).

Recovery guy did some kind of check on the battery, says the voltage drops heavily when turning over.

Air in radiator, despite regular bleeding. Last night, heater went off and indicator rose, bled it and all was well. Now indicator is not registering, even when fully warm. (LED flashes okay on start-up.) Heating fine. Bled some more off just now, still needle/dial doesn't move. Seemed to be some water on tarmac below engine, but not sure. No sign of leak in system.

Tappets were mentioned recently; recovery guy said they sounded okay. He was talking about pump and jets.

This has come at a rather bad time. I was half-way to Ashford to catch the Eurostar, now an important trip has had to be abandoned. I've been on the road or around the van since 6pm last night, with 4 hours sleep somewhere in the middle. I'm back in Hay now, a small town in the hills, far from most things. I rely on the van for my business, without it I'm in serious trouble, like filing for personal bankruptcy trouble, please help!

Post by **Georgedog** » 02 Nov 2006, 13:38

Not King Of Oil Burners BUT ,,,,, Is It Using Water / Coolant ???
as every time you leed the air out, ideally should be replaced with coolant ?

Post by **MacAoidh** » 02 Nov 2006, 13:47

top-up tank is brimming over, when cold. I did put some into the expansion tank just now, for the first time in a while.

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Nov 2006, 14:09

But it bump started fine, in reverse off the tow-(carry) truck. Runs fine once it gets going, never misses a beat.

Watch that one, certainly on Syncros Reverse bumping can be a box wrecker! 2nd gear forwards is probably best bet, being towed slowly.

Sounds like compressions/gasket trouble...

Have you checked for excessive blowby when running (out of breather)

Injectors in tight, no leaks, new flame shields/sealing rings (think 51 ft-lbf)

Glow plugs ditto 22 ft-lbf

Was head torqueing sequence and re-torqueuing carried out according to the book. Think torque + 90 + 90 + ? after first running.

New fuel filter and feed and return lines checked..

Post by **Georgedog** » 02 Nov 2006, 14:14

No idea where sender unit for temp gauge is in Derv, but its not been knoked off with the tampering has it....
If you know where it is, could you ground it out to the engine and see if any movement ?? [best check Wiki, and derv drivers first make sure you ok to do this ??]

Post by **Louey** » 02 Nov 2006, 15:50

could there be air in a fuel pipe? Check the joins to the fuel filter and along to the pump and the pipes onto the injectors. I've had really difficult starting and terrible running earlier this week and it came down to a leak in the pipe joing at the fuel filter

Post by **Westy.Club.Joker** » 02 Nov 2006, 16:23

Coolant tank should be pretty full when cold, as it blows excess back to the expansion bottle behind the number plate when hot, and sucks it back when it cools, IF the header tank pressure cap is working properly. Non-VW caps are known to cause probs.

Post by **MacAoidh** » 02 Nov 2006, 19:09

Thanks everybody, that gets me started. I'm intriqued now, about the coolant cap. I've heard everybody slagging off the non-VW ones for years, made a mental note never to buy one. But what if I've already got one?!! Certainly, I've never really understood the expansion system, seeing little evidence of sucking back into the main tank.

Another factor: I nearly ran out of fuel the other day, got 60.17 litres in (still remember, two weeks later!). So maybe a look at the fuel filter is in order. Can anyone tell me where to start? Is it common sense? Haynes manual doesn't cover diesels. What be a return line? And blowby? There is a bit of a leak from an injector, although nothing new.

Any more info re temp sender units?

And any ideas where I could get a quick and reliable engine swap done? I've been faffing about, looking at going GTi/gas etc for years; I think the way to go is to chuck in a 1.6TD for now, maybe a larger one if it is easy. Will travel!

Thanks for all help

Post by **Bendyknees** » 02 Nov 2006, 19:18

You say that you battery basically failed the drop test that was performed. Does ur van turn over fairly slowly then? Dont forget that before u crank your smoker the battery is giving 40+ amps to the glow plugs to raise combustion chamber temp, and that if ur battery is weak then by the time you come to crank there isnt a lot left in it, and if the seals in ur injection pump/joins in pipe are sucking in a bit of air then by the time uve glowed, and cranked to bring fuel up has ur battery run out of go.
My other thought, u have a relay to initiate glowplugs at various temps. U say that it starts fine wen cold, an ok wen hot. But wat if ur glowers arnt glowin wen the engine is just warm, just a thought
And finally if its none of the above id start looking for serious faults that have been mentioned, ie head gasket, split line or dodgy pump.

The last option is always carry around 8 blokes wit u in case ur ever in need of a push

Post by **MacAoidh** » 02 Nov 2006, 19:27

Glowplugs cutting out early is a possibility, but they're not doing anything differently to what they did before the problem started. But I'll add it to the list of things...

Any quick tips on chucking a new engine in? i.e. do the larger diesels fit straight in? 1.9n/a versus 1.9turbo? Easy to check if it's a dog?

Post by **Bendyknees** » 02 Nov 2006, 19:36

Dont just assume that because the yellow dash light goes on an off ur glows are working correctly. On many vehicles the glow light will go out but the plugs will continue to glow for a while(up to 30 seconds after starting on some french rubbish)

If ur feeling lazy and cant be bothered to lift the engine lid have u just tried simply double or triple glowin? helped me out a couple of times on the old landy wen it wasnt too well.

Post by **MacAoidh** » 02 Nov 2006, 19:45

The light goes out after about 3 seconds, I usually give it about ten goes these days, as they're not so new. But when cold the engine has been starting beautifully. Once a month, on the button, for the last 14 months while resting on the drive.

Post by **HarryMann** » 02 Nov 2006, 20:48

Generally, diesels don't like starting when cold.. when hot, the fuel vaporises nicely, she cranks better and the thing catches and runs no problem...

so we have a conundrum here

It's possible it's being flooded a bit, its possible the head gasket is giving trouble (weeping) whe hot and a whole host of other things.

I think you should change your fuel filter for one thing! It is messy (vinyl gloves, for what they're worth) but really only a 10 minuite job. The thing should re-bleed itself within a few cranks (10~15 secs) and start up again OK. I think there might be one posidrive type screw you need to loosen and nip back up, on the fuel feed line, the return is a clip on job if its like my TD.

Tighten that leaky injector or if the XS fuel return tube is dodgy, you can get sets of thems from a Motofax for about a fiver. Just replace them one by one so's you knows where they goes.

All that black smoke when starting indicates too much fuel, are you cranking with your foot down or off the peddle?

Mayeb you have low compressions when the engine is hot... but I'm not a diesel expert, usually worn low compressiona nd lots of blowby(piston blowby, crancase being pressurised, check wehn running by removing the big tube that goes to the cam cover vent) means poor cold starting.

If you let it coole right down after a lomg run, will it really start OK immediately? It shouldn't actually need the glow plugs when hot OR warm anyway. Dopes it crank well, or si the battery down on Mps when its all hot (being overcharged perhaps??)

Post by **Westy.Club.Joker** » 03 Nov 2006, 09:18

Glow plug light should glow for approx. 15-20 secs. from cold (mine does and then it start first crank). When warm the plugs don`t come on at all, as there is a temp. sender somewhere that tells the control box not to put them on. Mine, and quite a few other TD`s don`t start as well when warm/hot, it takes maybe 5 or 6 secs. cranking to start it. Don`t know why. I`ve had 2 Citroen TD`s (not sh***ed old things either) and they both needed glow when warm to start (they don`t have the temp. sender cutout thing so the plugs always came on).

Might be worth looking at trying to have the plugs come on even when warm, would need someone who knows how to rewire the system so it came on at every start. You could prove if it works easily by energising the plugs with some heavy cable from the battery (when the motor is warm and doesn`t like starting) if it started straight away then that could be it.

UPDATE- the temp sender wire for the glowplug realy is BLUE/WHITE.

Check out similar thread on Brickyard.

Post by **MacAoidh** » 04 Nov 2006, 12:24

This is getting out of hand, for a 1.6n/a - it's really going to have to be a new engine. In the meantime I'll try and get the battery and cooling system sorted.

It would be nice to get something like a 1.9TD but the priority is just to get the thing back on the road, so maybe a 1.6TD would be a more straightforward option. I'll start exploring the Alternative Engine forum.

Thanks for all the advice, it's really appreciated.

Steve