Club 80-90 Forums

1.9 TD (AAZ) engine, converted from CS many years ago. Coming up hill in Devon, temperature gauge climbed rapidly to the top and cloud of steam visible out back in rear-view mirror. Nowhere to pull in so had to keep going to brow of hill, where bus cut out just short of layby. Pushed it in and was recovered by AA on flatbed. Could not get to engine compartment owing to family kit. Took the view it was shagged so just wanted to get home.

On investigating this morning I can see that one of the radiator hoses has blown off at the engine compartment bulkhead. I am not sure whether this was the cause or a symptom of the problem.

Crankshaft turns when pushed in gear so engine does not appear to be seized. However, the starter motor is completely dead - not even a click. I have checked the wiring to it and it looks OK visually and all connections are tight. The rest of the electrical system seems normal and the battery is well charged. It would be a massive coincidence for the starter to fail at exactly the same time it overheated. Does anyone know if there is some sort of cut-out relay that kills the engine when the temperature gets to a certain threshold? Does this need to be reset?

Any other ideas?

Cheers.

Update: power to solenoid on key-turn good. Found a random piece of heavy-gauge wire hanging off the side of the starter, which I assume is the link between the solenoid output and the motor windings. Looks as though the starter motor is indeed well and truly shot (it is 29 years old, tbf).

I know this should probably now be moved to the electrical section but it does seem coincidental that it happened at the exact moment it overheated. Maybe I burned it out trying to restart the engine, or maybe it was just on its last legs anyway and didn't need much persuading to retire.

Ho hum, will have to see how the engine issue pans out.

I just has a similar problem but also wondering if it's just coincidence.

My 1.6td jx has been chugging away happily for the last 10 years, albeit with constant oil top-ups due to leaks and some burning. I ended up driving the van probably 50-100 miles before realising the oil was 5-10mm below the minimum dipstick level. I chucked in a load of oil and drive another 50 miles. When I arrived home there was loads of smoke coming out of the exhaust on idle. I checked the oil level and it was prob 5mm over the max dipstick level. A couple of days later when I tried to start the van the starter motor was knackered.

I didn't notice any overheating but I'm wondering if my temp gauge is faulty as it hardly ever moves much from cold. I'm wondering if the excess oil Could have been push up into into the starter or if there was some overheating or if it was just coincidence.

Anyway due to my incompetence I'm pretty sure I'm in the market for a new engine (although to be fair I probably was before). I've got oil spitting from exhaust even though the oil level is back to normal again. Will hopefully find out tomorrow once the garage fits the new starter if this is just residue oil in the exhaust or if the engine/turbo is still spewing oil

After fixing mine up finally, I can confirm the failed starter was a total coincidence - it just chose that moment after 29 years to shuffle off its mortal coil and was not related to the other fault. I believe the loss of coolant was caused by the end blowing off one of the front-to-rear hoses. Although the hoses are plastic and should last for ever, the ends are steel and corrode over time. This is documented on the Brickyard site. In my case this sudden coolant loss proved expensive: new head, rebore, bottom-end rebuild, starter, clutch (as the engine was out) plus of course new stainless steel pipes.

Wrt the oil loss, first thing to check obviously is for any leaks, particularly around the sump plug and turbo feed/return pipes. Also suspect turbo oil seals - a recond turbo is not too dear and can be fitted in situ. If it's burning oil then that might be piston rings but probably has to be tolerated. The starter sits in the bell housing and it is extremely unlikely to be affected by an oil leak. What I learned with mine is that they can fail suddenly with no prior symptoms. HTH.

To add: oil spitting from the exhaust definitely points to a turbo problem. If the oil was getting into the cylinders it would be burned and manifest itself as grey smoke. The fact it is dripping in liquid form indicates it is entering the exhaust system after the combustion cycle, and the only place it can do this is via the turbo.

Recond turbo is probably the way to go. Before you do that, make sure your levels are right and you are not overfilling with oil. In this model, even a healthy turbo can leak oil if the sump is overfilled.

Thanks for the advice Mark,

Trawling the forums last night I was thinking that the oil could be coming from the turbo. As much as I'm interested in how things work I really don't have the facilities or expertise to tackle this stuff myself. I want the van to live on happily for another 10 years so I'm seriously considering going down the route of a fully rebuilt 1.9TD AAZ with warranty. It's expensive but I want it done right. Only problem is that one of the options is down in the Midlands and I'm in Edinburgh. I'm wondering if I can limp the van 300 miles with oil leaking from the turbo. Or if the turbo can simply be removed and capped off for the journey.

I'm also try to search for reputable experts in the Edinburgh area who could do the work but that probably needs a separate post. I'm a bit worried that I'd be 300miles away in the event of something going wrong with the new engine in case of a warranty issue.

Got a message from UPS saying my brickwerks starter arrived at local garage this afternoon so itching to see what the engine is doing.

If your scrapping it anyway there's nothing to lose? How much does a fully rebuilt engine come in at?


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Capping the turbo off is not really an option as you have got air, exhaust and oil throughputs to consider, and it would run like a dog if you achieved it. Unless the problem has taken a turn for the worse recently, you may be tempted to do the drive with regular stops at service stations to check the oil level etc. As I said previously, make sure your sump is not overfilled as even a healthy turbo will leak oil if the sump level is above the level of the bearings. After I did my AAZ conversion I drove round Europe on a new turbo, leaking pints of oil and then replacing it before I realised the dipstick was set way too high; the problem stopped once I put just the correct amount of oil in.

Otherwise, hiring a pick-up truck might be an option if you are worried.

I suppose it's worth asking what you are looking to achieve through the engine swap - might that be overkill? Is there anything seriously wrong with the old engine that necessitates a complete renewal? What mileage has it done and does it run OK? It may be that a recond JX turbo for ~£300 plus some remedial gasket work done locally will keep it on the road for another innings.

The apparent cool-running problem could be electrical - sender unit, wiring, fuse etc - check engine earth too. Also, check that your glowplug and temp gauge wires are not swapped over on their respective senders as this will give a low reading on the gauge (plus the glowplugs will not work). Glowplugs (blueish wire) are triggered from the sender in the flange on the side of the block near the oild filter whereas the gauge (red/yellow wire IIRC) has its sender on the leading edge of the block in the flange for the hose going to the heater. The garage put mine on the wrong way round, which is how I know this.

Mark how did you decide on the right oil level?


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Drained the oil, changed the filter then put in exactly the right amount of oil for an oil/filter change as per the OM. I think this is 4.5L but don't quote me - check! I noticed that this barely registered on the dipstick as this had been swapped in from a JX onto the AAZ. So I asked a specialist to cut down the dipstick guide tube by an inch or so such that the level sat halfway between MAX and MIN.

Look towards the bottom of this article https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Al ... gine_1.9TD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

E D I T: of course, for a native JX the level *should* already be right and a dipstick mod should not be required! However, as the engine sits over at 52 degrees, the general point about overfilling is well made: any significant excess is likely to find its way out of the turbo.

I'm intrigued.. My 1.6d chucks out loads of oil until (it feels) it gets to a level that it rarely goes below. It's deffo a swap out cause I found the wrong oil pump on it when I dug around, I tried the correct fill approach and it didn't even register on the dipstick! Never had the guts to chance running 'low' on oil though. This might explain something..!


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Smcknighty wrote:If your scrapping it anyway there's nothing to lose? How much does a fully rebuilt engine come in at?


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The 1.9 AAZ long block is 1250+vat but of course there are lots of other bits to replace as I want this van to be running like new for another 10 years.
with all the other parts and turbo and labour VAT etc I'm not gonna get much change from 4K. I got the tip from Brickwerks that these guys aren't cheap but they will do things right and based on my initial dealings I am feeling confident. I've had the van for 10 year and only done 25K miles but is been sluggish, engine has been dropped twice to replace oil seals and clutch, it burns and leaks like mad and I constantly drive around expecting to break down. I guess I'm just looking for a more relaxed experience in my old age. to be fair it's always started first time chugs along ok and has never actually had a catatrohic failure. (last water pump went just as I pulled up at home at the end of a 400 mile trip which was lucky)

Mark S wrote:Capping the turbo off is not really an option as you have got air, exhaust and oil throughputs to consider, and it would run like a dog if you achieved it. Unless the problem has taken a turn for the worse recently, you may be tempted to do the drive with regular stops at service stations to check the oil level etc. As I said previously, make sure your sump is not overfilled as even a healthy turbo will leak oil if the sump level is above the level of the bearings. After I did my AAZ conversion I drove round Europe on a new turbo, leaking pints of oil and then replacing it before I realised the dipstick was set way too high; the problem stopped once I put just the correct amount of oil in.

Otherwise, hiring a pick-up truck might be an option if you are worried.

I suppose it's worth asking what you are looking to achieve through the engine swap - might that be overkill? Is there anything seriously wrong with the old engine that necessitates a complete renewal? What mileage has it done and does it run OK? It may be that a recond JX turbo for ~£300 plus some remedial gasket work done locally will keep it on the road for another innings.

The apparent cool-running problem could be electrical - sender unit, wiring, fuse etc - check engine earth too. Also, check that your glowplug and temp gauge wires are not swapped over on their respective senders as this will give a low reading on the gauge (plus the glowplugs will not work). Glowplugs (blueish wire) are triggered from the sender in the flange on the side of the block near the oild filter whereas the gauge (red/yellow wire IIRC) has its sender on the leading edge of the block in the flange for the hose going to the heater. The garage put mine on the wrong way round, which is how I know this.

Hello Mark,
If my local garage don't reckon it's completely shot I'm going to attempt the drive with regular stops. It could be that I'm spending way more money than I need to but I'm trying to look at it from the point of view of spreading that cost over the next 10 years. The guy I bought the van off said he had a complete engine rebuild and new head about 25K miles ago but it was leaking a bit from when I picked it up and it started to burn oil after about 10K miles. It's always run smoothly and started instantly. It was always very noisey cold but then settled down. Been getting tired of a adding a pint of oil every 200 miles though and since my van is a hitop camper it's pretty sluggish. Perhaps if I new a good specialist in my area I'd be more inclined to try a few cheaper options first but I'm thinking by the time the engine has been removed a couple of times the cost will be up to what I'm going to pay for an effectively new engine. If the history I had for the last engine rebuild was more than something scribbled on an envelope I might be more inclined to go down that route too.

I am wondering what to do with the old JX though. I'm sure it would be a good project for someone knowledgable. I'm probably going for a fully reconditioned gear box too with modified 5th gear for better cruising so perhaps my existing gearbox will be on offer too. Again I'm thinking in terms of spreading this cost over the next 10 years.

A fair one. There are articles on the wiki here about what goes into the AAZ mod. Have you thought about going the extra mile for a 1Z (TDi) if it's a long-term investment?

Depending on what the conversion people can provide, you will need to reuse a lot of the old JX ancillaries. IIRC in my case I used JX manifolds, sump, pick-up pipe, air cleaner, turbo (recond), flywheel, flanges and hoses so there might not be a lot left to sell if the core of the lump is shot.

In addition to your long block you can buy a new AAZ head from Vege for ~£600 incl VAT and del (I just did).

The guys I'm gonna (MV engineering) use did mention about TDi but I think I'd have to wait longer. And of course it's more expensive. They are going to use jx ancillaries but there will be many new components and It's coming with a new head anyway.
Will be able to see if my existing head and block has any useful resale value when they take it out I suppose


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