Engine overhaul

[jeffj]

MM

Got my head buried in the sand at the moment as I cannot convince myslef I have fitted the clutch incorrectly.

Just going to mull it over until weather improves.

[Plasticman]

bit cold and hungry for head burrying
if you get a spare pair of hands or feet then you press the clutch and does it feel like its doing somethinmg as you press it, ok get a.n.other to slowly press and you go under and observe whats happening with the slave and pushrod, confirm its moving in repaltion to the foot pressure on the pedal find out if the pushrod apears to stop moiving before pedal is fully depressed, also be handy to measure the amount of travel on the pushrod, ok when you done that pop back here for five then go find a nice soft bit of snow, maybe some in the field just nth of the pub, and bury your head till next day, it will all seem better then
mm

[jeffj]

Current working conditions.


FAULT DIAGNOSIS

Items replaced.
Clutch operating shaft & bushes
Release bearing
Clutch
Clutch disc plate
Clutch cover assembly
Clutch master & slave cylinders

When bleeding
When nipple open clutch pedal travels all way to floor. When nipple closed pedal ony travels about 3/4 of way.
This is not the problem.

Can the clutch operating arm be fitted wrong?
This can only go back on shaft in one position. This is not the problem.

Decided to measure movement so dragged Janet out of house to operate clutch pedal.
When depressed it ony travels 5mm?

Checked old slave. closed 86mm extended 103mm. Total travel of 17mm.

Removed new slave from mounting bracket to check travel.
As slackening bolts the slave was coming away from bracket. This proves the slave is not going through full travel when pedal compressed?
Measured slave travel. 106mm extended and 86mm compressed. Total travel 20mm
As slave is now off and fully extended no travel on the clutch pedal. Think this proves it is not the hydraulics and is mechanical.

It looks like I will be splitting the engine and box once the weather improves?

As a plus point the engine is running fine so seem to have resolved the cooling pressurisation problem.

[Plasticman]

see, easy isnt it when you think it through,
you have now confirmed that hydraulics apear to function as they should,
as youve foound when removeing the slave it was sort of being pushed away from the arm so to speak which means somethiong in the bell housing is preventing it from actuating, so when you split it take picks as you go before removing stuff, it will as you will soon find out , a really simple silly thing....
oh now see that garage, well I would be adding a few holes 1 couple of foot above to door top and sticking some acros in there and building a nice arch to allow van in to its rightfull place but there again the roof it prob preformed so no internal height
mm

[jeffj]

Garage was built to take a pop top bay before I bought the T25. Can extend the roof of the bay when inside so the internal height is okay?

Have to much to do at moment sorting T25, then a Bay to restore without rebuilding garage? Also have a room sorted out upstairs for storage.

Just had a daft thought. Can the retaining bolt for the release shaft be tightened to much?

1979 Bay porn

[jeffj]

Subject to weather this weekend going to try and sort clutch problem. Reading the Haynes manual think I will take the gearbox out.

This will save disconnecting all water pipes, electrics etc from engine.

Work scope
Clutch slave already off.
Jack up and support on axle stands.
Remove starter.
Remove drive shafts and tie up.
Remove gear linkage.
One jack under engine and one under box.
Remove front gearbox mount.
Lower engine & box until gearbox will clear crossmember. (Need to keep eye on tension on cables, pipes etc as lowering, but Haynes manual does not mention this as a problem?)
Remove upper bolt and two lower nuts.
Withdraw gearbox and lower.
This seems an easier option than removing engine again.

Can then hopefully solve clutch problem?
Will also check out drive shaft bearings, remove filler plug (first), drain plug and then replace oil.

[Ian Hulley]

Double wrap the CV joints in carrier bags and laccy bands .... saves a nasty case of 'moly-ear' and you don't want your balls dropping out in this weather

Ian

[billy739]

personally i would not remove the box just yet.

the key factor being the pedal not going to the floor.

if the pedal does not go to the floor when the nipple is closed then this would suggest that the slave cylinder is running out of travel. there is uaually a circlip inside the cylinder to stop the plunger coming out too far , this is usually what happens and gives the symtoms of what you suggest.


without pressing the clutch , bleed nipple closed try pulling the clutch arm up so as the pushrod goes up ito the cylinder. how far does it go?

this may sound stupid but how long is the push rod ? any pictures? is the nipple on the clutch arm in good condition? ( not pointing at you but years of other owners)

have you swapped the bracket for the cylinder at all, diesels are different to petrols.

any pics would help.

can you confirm the clutch is correct?

i know that a late 228mm 2.1 clutch is different to other 228mm clutches , but i am unsure at the mo of why( not had chance to compare)

[jeffj]

Billy

Thanks for feedback.

Will try and answer comments as follows. May have to do this over a couple of messages as system just crashed and I am having to start again.

COMMENT "if the pedal does not go to the floor when the nipple is closed then this would suggest that the slave cylinder is running out of travel. there is uaually a circlip inside the cylinder to stop the plunger coming out too far , this is usually what happens and gives the symtoms of what you suggest"

ANSWER Checked travel on pushrod slaves when removed. Old 17mm. New 20mm. Both seem to travel full extent. When new slave in position pushrod not travelling full length only 5mm.
When removing slave, bolts under tension as being slackened? This points to me as the arm was at it furthest point? But obviously not far enough to depress clutch.

COMMENT "this may sound stupid but how long is the push rod ? any pictures? is the nipple on the clutch arm in good condition? ( not pointing at you but years of other owners)"

ANSWER Both slaves identical length. Nipple on clutch arm okay and end of pushrod slides on okay.


New slave laid on gearbox.


Old slave on bench


New & old slave laid on gearbox.

COMMENT "have you swapped the bracket for the cylinder at all, diesels are different to petrol"

ANSWER Reused old bracket.

[jeffj]

Billys comments continued.

COMMENT "without pressing the clutch , bleed nipple closed try pulling the clutch arm up so as the pushrod goes up ito the cylinder. how far does it go"

ANSWER Slave is already removed from bracket. Arm can be moved from its highest position down to its lowest position giving a movement of 13mm. No force can be applied by hand pressure. It is either up or down. This is the slack in the movement of arm?

So when the slave is fitted this takes up the 13mm of slack and with the 5mm of travel gives about 18mm which is approx the same as pushrod travel? THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE 13mm OF SLACK?????????


Highest point of travel


Lowest point of travel

COMMENT "can you confirm the clutch is correct"
"i know that a late 228mm 2.1 clutch is different to other 228mm clutches , but i am unsure at the mo of why( not had chance to compare)"

ANSWER Just Kampers kit J10135 purchased. 228mm dia for 2000cc air cooled and 1900cc 1983 onwards water cooled.. Checked old clutch plate and this is 228mm dia.


Clutch kit box.

[jeffj]

Gearbox out this afternoon.

Seems to be plenty of movement on clutch lever now?

Clutch Housing x 4 positions




Release bearing compressed 20mm which should be enough to compress clutch?

Release bearing closed position.

Old clutch

All looks okay?

Going back in garage now to take of clutch housing and plate. Will post further photos shortly.

[jeffj]

Now taking clutch cover and plate back off.

Now know way you double bag end of drive shafts.
Once when joint broken.
2nd time when gearbox out of way.


Clutch cover with aligning tool inserted.


Clutch plate in place after cover removed. It is in the right way.


Clutch cover on bench


Clutch plate on bench.

Everything looks okay. What is the problem?

[jeffj]

Time for a break from T25 while wait for any feedback on problem?

Any way decided to treat myself to another project.

Going to try and relive my youff?

Bought a 1976 Yamaha DT175 for restoration. Had one of these as a 17 year old.

[Oldiebut goodie]

Possibly:
I notice that you have bought what you say is a clutch for 83 onwards but the box that you picture above says UP TO 83.

[jeffj]

Think the label on box not big enough to print full details.

J10135 - Just kampers catolouge describes it as 2000cc air cooled and 1900cc water cooled 83 on.

Was the change from air cooled to water cooled in 83?